topmaul 42 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=74282&st=0 I feel the Saiga should be in the tactical division because it is TACTICAL if you feel the same please vote! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=74282&st=0 I feel the Saiga should be in the tactical division because it is TACTICAL if you feel the same please vote! John, Looking at the poll results I think you are scaring the USPSA straight types with your strange non-Remington/ Benelli, Russian shotgun suggestions. After all, a mag-fed shotgun with no capacity limits in anything but Open Division, well...that's just crazy talk!!! Edited December 18, 2008 by Ronswin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=74282&st=0 I feel the Saiga should be in the tactical division because it is TACTICAL if you feel the same please vote! John, Looking at the poll results I think you are scaring the USPSA straight types with your strange non-Remington/ Benelli, Russian shotgun suggestions. After all, a mag-fed shotgun with no capacity limits in anything but Open Division, well...that's just crazy talk!!! It probably should be more like rifle, you can have a mag fed rifle in tactical, and a drum fed in open. Shotgun would do fine by that, but then what to make of camerons 10 rnd drum? Maybe just a mag restriction to 10 rounds for tactical? I'm not a member over there, so i can't vote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I will agree with that drums open mags tactical makes sense to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I agree too. 10rd tactical 11+ rounds (drum or otherwise) Open. But what about Speed-Loader tube feeders? Open or Tactical? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I voted with you Top. I fell some people are turned away from the matches because it puts their inexpensive shotgun in a class that requires (usually) much more money for them to set up their pistol and rifle to compete in Open. Greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 For those of you that are not members of the Brian Enos forum the poll is 147 for keeping the Saiga in Open Division 29 (I think) for moving it to Tactical or Limited Division. It would be great if we could even it up a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SinistralRifleman 0 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 But what about Speed-Loader tube feeders? Open or Tactical? I think there is a difference between a gun made in real production numbers that comes with the ability to accept detachable magazines, and a gun that was heavily modified to accept aftermarket feeding devices the manufacturer never designed it to use. I see very few guns with tec-loaders that are exactly the same, they all have different fittings, filings, and ramps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 For those of you that are not members of the Brian Enos forum the poll is 147 for keeping the Saiga in Open Division 29 (I think) for moving it to Tactical or Limited Division. It would be great if we could even it up a bit. I didn't notice any real argument for the saiga, just a lot of bitching about previous polls becomeing pissing contests. Do you really expect anything different under those circumstances? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) 149 to 31 we are gaining! Good Morning Ron! Edited December 19, 2008 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfighteruk 6 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) I voted with you ............ but over here in the UK were screwed either Standard , Modified or Open, think its the same for most of Europe.So any mag fed gun is Open. Counted 12 Saiga users at my last comp out of 75 shooters, numbers are picking up although as yet non are custom or slicked up most are magwell spetz 3.Slow reloads & only 8 rounds . 2010 ......... any one loan me a Saiga were having problems getting permission to bring firearms into the States. Edited December 19, 2008 by gunfighteruk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 149 to 33 Progress! Not sure but heck they are commercially avialible here so there should be no problems you might want to touch base with the match director I'm sure there will be customs forms both entering the US and re-entering the UK this is not the first international match so I sure there are procedures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Sorry to be the downer ... but ... This will NEVER happen. Shooting sports are businesses. A lot of their customers have $$$ tied up in conventional shotguns, and there is money/goods in winning. Imagine allowing the Saiga to go head to head against them, you've basically told them they have three choices: stay home, come (likely) loose, buy a new shotgun. Plus, it's not like it's any feat beating someone who has a shotgun designed to reload slowly. The other option would be to allow Saigas, but agree to design stages that nullify saiga advantages i.e. : 8 round speed shoot shoot 5 ... run 20 yards ... shoot 5 select slug "drills" etc Which will make the MD think a little more, and take a lot of creativity away. The frustrating thing is buying a $600 shotgun automatically puts you in open. To be competitive there, you'll need to spend serious coin on pistol/rifle which some Saiga owners don't want to do, and shoot open which many purists don't want to do. Another path might be to allow the Saiga to compete in tactical as long as stock 5 round mags are used. But the real answer is the way that they've handled other issues like this... create a mag fed class that isn't open. USPSA has open, limited/l10, revolver, singlestack and production classes, IDPA seperates pistols into divisions .... That's what we really want anyways. And it isn't happening untill enough competitors ask for it. Sorry to be so pessimistic during the Christmas season Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) Kenneth, Wow I was in a good mood this morning now I'll be down all day. of course your right tubefeeders consider the Saiga to be unfair in some way. Open division is a rich mans game to me shooting is a hobby I just don't have the disposable income to put into a bunch of open class guns. Maybe someday I will but not right now. 149 to 33 you could imagen if we ever take the lead on this poll the tube feeders will have a get out the vote effort similar to ACORN (could not resist) Edited December 20, 2008 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Sorry bout the downer ... hey, let's do this. Let's list the matches that don't isolate the saiga shooter into open class. If it ends up being interesting enough, we can post an informational sticky here? +++++++++++++++ Matches on the hall of Fame: Larue 3gun - Mar 28-29 - Waco, TX MGM Ironman - Jun 11-13th - Parma, ID Note, this is a HUGE match. Round count ~1,000 (<- This is NOT a typo), inc 100 slugs and 75 Buck and 250 bird!!! Note, this is actually a 4 gun match, they allow a LONG range rifle (650 yards) Note, it's actually a 5 gun match, they have a .45 cal carbine (they provide that ammo). Note, it's actually a 6 gun match, they have some SUBGUN FUN (and yes, they'll provide the subgun .. AND AMMO) Note, they follow USPSA weapons rules, but have created a class ("tactical") that allows one weapon to be an open gun. OR you can go into trooper class where anything goes, as long as you carry everything! High Plains Shotgun Challenge - Mar 20-22 - OK City, OK Note, Shotgun only! 105 shot, 40 slug, 22 buckshot Note, you might actually want to compete in open class .. to avoid a competing against Kurt Miller Matches on the hall of Shame: WestPoint 3 gun ... errr, now 2 gun. They switched to rifle pistol only!!! and dropped open class altogether? HA! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SinistralRifleman 0 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 If you are a skilled rifle iron sight shooter, having the shotgun be your open gun at Ironman in Tactical or Tactical heavy is the way to go. This year David Letsch got Second in Tactical Heavy with the Saiga-12 as his open gun. I won Trooper this year, the Saiga-12 being one of the reasons for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Kenneth That is very interesting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 I had to look up my login for the Enos forums but I voted. 34 to 151. We is in the minority... Oh well, I shot the MGM Ironman this last spring and there I was in Open blasting away. I will be back this year and My Pistol is a NICE limited .40 STI but it is still a limited gun. My Rifle is a 14.5 M4ish carbine, very limitied. I MAY pull out the 6.8 for the 10 long range shots but we will see. All in all this is an up hill gig at best. I would LOVE to see the Saiga in Tactical class. Keep pullin boys. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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