contact ranges in Iraq

[poodle 0]

What range are the contacts against hostiles in Iraq? The reason I'm asking is because I've seen a picture of an M4 with the underbarrel shotgun. I am also wondering what the effective range of a Saiga is vs an M4. I love the thought of room clearing but I wonder how effective the Saiga would be beyond 50 yards.

[GLOCKshooter 1]

The underbarrel 12 guage is mostly for door breaching. Even with the short (14.5") barrel, the M4 runs rings around any 12 ga except maybe slugs in the range department.

[SuAside 2]

The underbarrel 12 guage is mostly for door breaching. Even with the short (14.5") barrel, the M4 runs rings around any 12 ga except maybe slugs in the range department.

except slugs?

 

euhm, even with the best Brenneke slugs, you're never going to reach the range of 5.56x45 out of a short barrel...

[loki0629 55]

What range are the contacts against hostiles in Iraq? The reason I'm asking is because I've seen a picture of an M4 with the underbarrel shotgun. I am also wondering what the effective range of a Saiga is vs an M4. I love the thought of room clearing but I wonder how effective the Saiga would be beyond 50 yards.

 

Just remember that the guy clearing the room with a shotgun is also backed up by at least a fireteam. So what he can't range outside with his shotgun, his buddies will. And of course, there's always the radioman (for indirect fire or to request a quick react force).

[loki0629 55]

Edited because of double post. Must have really hit the egg nog pretty hard last night!

Edited December 25, 2008 by GunnyR

[SOPMOD 254]

A 12ga is short range weapon,great inside structures or across the street but it lacks the range,accuracy and penetration of a rifle.

 

I did so many experiments with flechettes,slugs,sabot slugs,buck and ball,etc to get effective hits with my Saiga 12 at extended ranges(75-125yds) but it never even approached being a "rifle substitute" even beyond 50yds.

 

Watching my 00 Buck bounce off of a car sheetmetal at 75yds while my AKM would penetrate it at 3x that distance pretty much caused me to relegate the S12 for structures or clearing off the front and rear deck which was the conventional wisdom anyway.

[topmaul 42]

My feeling is you need the right tool for the job. The Saiga is a very unique weapon while still a shotgun it is far superior to any other shotgun out there except the ones made of "unobtainable" I'm sure the military could get those weapons but the fact that "Unobtainable" is a rare material those weapons come with high costs.

 

The S-12 brings a lot to the table, many doctrines and training have the shotgunner transition to the pistol rather than reload we train hard on transition as we all know "under stress we revert to training" the fact that the S-12 can be reloaded almost as fast as a person can transition from tube-feeder to pistol. With the reloaded Saiga the shotguner has his primary weapon fully charged, where the transition-er would have a far less capable weapon.

 

The S-12 drum this brings a serious level to shotgun effectiveness, for example in the gun game world say a course of fire could be done by a pretty good Saiga shooter in 30 seconds using 2 AGP mags, I would expect a good Saiga shooter equipped with a drum to run the same course of fire much faster say less than 20 seconds. There is an intagable advantage to the drum, no slowing down attack the objective.

 

With straight incert magazine wells soon to be on the market and a last round bolt lock installed on the Saiga we have the ultimate "obtainable" combat shotgun, with practice/training a good shotgunner will be able to have his S-12 reloaded and back as fast as a tube feeder could load 3 rounds or draw his pistol. Giving the S-12 a clear advantage over any other tactical shotgun on the market.

[topmaul 42]

double post not sure how I did that?

Edited December 25, 2008 by topmaul