G2 Trigger have to be moved forward?

[TackTickle 0]

Hello All! Just got a Saiga 7.62 and took it to the range. I have to say it's pretty dang accurate! 2-3" groupings at 50 yards with the iron sights straight from the factory and Wolf Classic ammo. I wasn't too impressed with the stock trigger or the ergonomics of the buttstock.

I've read up on the single hook G2 trigger working well in the Saigas. Question is, can I just drop it in without moving the trigger group forward?

Anyone have any suggestions on the buttstock? I live in NJ so I think the pistol grip is out of the question... I really like the ergonomics of the Monte Carlo stock for the SKS.

Thanks in advance!

[nalioth 405]

To get a good trigger pull, you'll need to convert.

 

If you look around the forum, there are several New Jersians who've successfully done it (with pistol grip).

[oxyehho 8]

To get a good trigger pull, you'll need to convert.

 

If you look around the forum, there are several New Jersians who've successfully done it (with pistol grip).

+1

 

Initially I thought NJ would prohibit PG convo, but no it ain't the case. Just stay away from the muzzle threading, folding/telescoping stocks and bayo lug. Also keep your mags under 15 rounders if 922r compliant, 10 if not.

[TackTickle 0]

That's what I thought, but I called the State Police and they said it would cause a problem. "You would be arrested, booked and the attorneys would have to handle the technicalities". The law states you can have a detachable mag and pistol grip, however the "banned weapons list" has all Avtomat Kalashnikov type rifles banned.

Can the G2 be dropped in without the group being moved forward?

Any suggestions on the stock without the pistol grip?

[oxyehho 8]

That's what I thought, but I called the State Police and they said it would cause a problem. "You would be arrested, booked and the attorneys would have to handle the technicalities". The law states you can have a detachable mag and pistol grip, however the "banned weapons list" has all Avtomat Kalashnikov type rifles banned.

Can the G2 be dropped in without the group being moved forward?

Any suggestions on the stock without the pistol grip?

Tack Tickle, this question gets replayed daily, let me repost this section of "Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault Firearms Laws"

Issued August 1996

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

 

 

PG is just one part. Perhaps all of us Jerseyans need to carry this thing next to a converted Saiga?

 

I am not a lawyer, but I do believe if they arrest anyone who hasn't broken any laws simply transporting a NJ legal firearm from home to the range or vice versa should be able to sue the state for unlawful arrest in this case.

[TackTickle 0]

I have read that before, that is why I called them. They referred me to their web site with the specifics. It's stated what you copied/pasted, but it also state NJ does not allow Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms are on the "Assault Firearms Banned List".

 

So, back to my actual questions... Does anyone know if you can drop in a G2 trigger without moving the whole group forward?

Anyone suggest a non pistol grip stock?

 

Just to be perfectly clear, I do not want to start an argument, I don't care what the actual law is, and I do NOT want to move the trigger group forward. If I wanted a nice AK, I would have bought a Krebs. I just bought this thing to beat up and would like a more comfortable trigger and buttstock, that's it!

[nalioth 405]

I have read that before, that is why I called them. They referred me to their web site with the specifics. It's stated what you copied/pasted, but it also state NJ does not allow Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms are on the "Assault Firearms Banned List".

 

So, back to my actual questions... Does anyone know if you can drop in a G2 trigger without moving the whole group forward?

Anyone suggest a non pistol grip stock?

 

Just to be perfectly clear, I do not want to start an argument, I don't care what the actual law is, and I do NOT want to move the trigger group forward. If I wanted a nice AK, I would have bought a Krebs. I just bought this thing to beat up and would like a more comfortable trigger and buttstock, that's it!

1) this isn't an Avtomat Kalashnikova. It's a Saiga sporiting rifle, and changing the way it looks isn't gonna turn it into an Avtomata Kalashnikova, no matter how hard the state wishes it so

 

2) No, you cannot drop a G2 into it. There is a vendor who offers a modified G2 for factory Saigas, but you'll still have the sh***y trigger pull, because you'll still have the Rube Goldberg linkage that holds it all together.

[TackTickle 0]

1) this isn't an Avtomat Kalashnikova. It's a Saiga sporiting rifle, and changing the way it looks isn't gonna turn it into an Avtomata Kalashnikova, no matter how hard the state wishes it so

 

2) No, you cannot drop a G2 into it. There is a vendor who offers a modified G2 for factory Saigas, but you'll still have the sh***y trigger pull, because you'll still have the Rube Goldberg linkage that holds it all together.

I see what you are saying about the linkage having to be extended the extra 2 inches... I will still want to swap out the stock.

 

I've driven through Texas 6 times driving back and forth NJ to CA on Interstate 40. I was actually pulled over once because the UHaul I was towing had a light out. He was actually cool after we discussed how I'm not really responsible for their light not blinking (was working when I left NJ) and he let me go with no ticket or warning. Actually said good luck, hope I didn't get pulled over and if I did tell him he said to let me go...

Have you ever been pulled over by a NJ law enforcement officer? You are treated like a Iraqi guy strapped with bombs walking up to a Military checkpoint in Iraq.

 

I'm white, blonde hair and blue eyes. They don't care. It is arrest now ask questions later. Sucks! Most of my family is/was in law enforcement, they all said to call the State Police, because they would arrest in that situation. There is very little tolerance in this state. The key word is "AK type semi auto...."

[devildogdakota 804]

2) No, you cannot drop a G2 into it. There is a vendor who offers a modified G2 for factory Saigas, but you'll still have the sh***y trigger pull, because you'll still have the Rube Goldberg linkage that holds it all together.

 

Ive got two Saigas. One converted with G2 trigger, and the other with Dinzags two-piece G2, (not converted, trigger not moved forward). It has the same crisp trigger pull as the converted. I can't tell the difference between the two, with the Rube Goldberg linkage still in place on my non-converted.

I was wondering if there would be a difference after the Dinzag modifyed G2, but I can't tell the difference between the two Saigas. It seems light and crisp to me. And yes, I have fired them both, side by side. Just my experience.

[TackTickle 0]

2) No, you cannot drop a G2 into it. There is a vendor who offers a modified G2 for factory Saigas, but you'll still have the sh***y trigger pull, because you'll still have the Rube Goldberg linkage that holds it all together.

 

Ive got two Saigas. One converted with G2 trigger, and the other with Dinzags two-piece G2, (not converted, trigger not moved forward). It has the same crisp trigger pull as the converted. I can't tell the difference between the two, with the Rube Goldberg linkage still in place on my non-converted.

I was wondering if there would be a difference after the Dinzag modifyed G2, but I can't tell the difference between the two Saigas. It seems light and crisp to me. And yes, I have fired them both, side by side. Just my experience.

Thank you Pariot!!! I did see Dinzags non converted. Is that an adjustable trigger? Also, did you keep the same buttstock for the rifle? The angle isn't the best for my hands, I keep going for the trigger with my middle finger.

[VladTepes 160]

1) this isn't an Avtomat Kalashnikova. It's a Saiga sporiting rifle, and changing the way it looks isn't gonna turn it into an Avtomata Kalashnikova, no matter how hard the state wishes it so

 

2) No, you cannot drop a G2 into it. There is a vendor who offers a modified G2 for factory Saigas, but you'll still have the sh***y trigger pull, because you'll still have the Rube Goldberg linkage that holds it all together.

I see what you are saying about the linkage having to be extended the extra 2 inches... I will still want to swap out the stock.

 

I've driven through Texas 6 times driving back and forth NJ to CA on Interstate 40. I was actually pulled over once because the UHaul I was towing had a light out. He was actually cool after we discussed how I'm not really responsible for their light not blinking (was working when I left NJ) and he let me go with no ticket or warning. Actually said good luck, hope I didn't get pulled over and if I did tell him he said to let me go...

Have you ever been pulled over by a NJ law enforcement officer? You are treated like a Iraqi guy strapped with bombs walking up to a Military checkpoint in Iraq.

 

I'm white, blonde hair and blue eyes. They don't care. It is arrest now ask questions later. Sucks! Most of my family is/was in law enforcement, they all said to call the State Police, because they would arrest in that situation. There is very little tolerance in this state. The key word is "AK type semi auto...."

 

 

ive explained this one million times and you are wrong..

 

its already an AK "type gun" as it has the IDENTICAL action of an AK...

 

its NOT an AK because its a SAIGA... changing the PG or whatever does NOT make it not a SAIGA its still a SAIGA.... so then we have to decide if its substantially identical... and the state DEFINES substantially identical... and it defines it by having a detachable magazine AND TWO other features...

 

PG is ONE

[VladTepes 160]

this is the LAW...

NJ names "avtomat-kalashnikov" as being a banned weapon.. so we have to look at what that means, and the ONLY thing that i can tell you is my understanding is it is describing a literal AK47 as a named banned weapon, in the same sense that certain AR weapons are NAMED... here is the reason i say this.. a saiga and an AK have IDENTICAL action... furniture does NOT change that... if you took a fully auto AK and put different furniture on it would it be legal? NO... it is the weapon itself that is legal or not legal, and the saiga IS legal for sale in NJ currently.. so in itself the weapon.. a Saiga IS a NJ legal gun.. so now you have to decide the following.. does changing the furniture do anything that violates NJ law.. and this is where you have to be careful because the answer is it COULD... Let's take a look at the Bushmaster series rifles that are NJ legal.. they are semiautomatic 15round(max) magazine fed PISTOL GRIP fixed stock 16+inch barrel weapons... so this is a reasonable benchmark.. even tho SOME ar15 type weapons that look EXACTLY like the bushmaster are ILLEGAL some bushmasters ARE legal.. well how can you tell whats legal and whats not? we have to look at the following passage of NJ LAW..

 

when you look at NJ law it states the following..

 

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon IF it meets the below listed criteria:

 

 

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

a folding or telescoping stock;

a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

a bayonet mount;

a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

a grenade launcher;

 

This is a SPECIFIC reading acording to the way the rifle IS built.. this is telling us you CAN have a rifle that has a detachable magazine, AND a pistol grip but NOT a bayonet mount (for example).. LASTLY i will point this out.. some have the "fake" conversion (no disrespect intended) because they feel this is more "safe" but think about it in the eyes of the law.. do you really think that your pistol grip and mine are different? if you do the full conversion or not you STILL have a detachable magazine with a pistol grip which is EXACTLY what i have...

 

if you do the PG conversion and the rest of the shit you are fine providing you dont have more than ONE of the items listed.. detachable magazine is ONE pistol grip is TWO... keep off the other items and you are fine..

 

NJ law is the reason it is hard to put a muzzle brake on these rifles..

NJ law is NOT a reason to leave the saiga unconverted..

 

it IS an AK... but it is NOT "substantially identical" to a banned AW because it ONLY has TWO "evil features"

 

i am obviously not a lawyer.. but this is the same reason you can purchase other pistol grip rifles... ive invested a TON of TIME and effort following the letter of the law.. TO the letter.. the reason that list exist is to bring clarity to the vague terminology of substantially identical..

[devildogdakota 804]

2) No, you cannot drop a G2 into it. There is a vendor who offers a modified G2 for factory Saigas, but you'll still have the sh***y trigger pull, because you'll still have the Rube Goldberg linkage that holds it all together.

 

Ive got two Saigas. One converted with G2 trigger, and the other with Dinzags two-piece G2, (not converted, trigger not moved forward). It has the same crisp trigger pull as the converted. I can't tell the difference between the two, with the Rube Goldberg linkage still in place on my non-converted.

I was wondering if there would be a difference after the Dinzag modifyed G2, but I can't tell the difference between the two Saigas. It seems light and crisp to me. And yes, I have fired them both, side by side. Just my experience.

Thank you Pariot!!! I did see Dinzags non converted. Is that an adjustable trigger? Also, did you keep the same buttstock for the rifle? The angle isn't the best for my hands, I keep going for the trigger with my middle finger.

 

No, the trigger ain't adjustable. Dinzag modifys the Tapco G3 trigger by grinding it a little on one side, and polishing it smooth. His Saiga drop in assembly contains two of the three G3 parts that drop into a non-converted Saiga. You use one of the trigger parts that you already have, and the little spring.

The reason I went this route, is because of the left folding Russian made buttstock I had previously purchased at the time. I wanted a folder that folds to the left. I didn't know much at the time about Saigas. Like I said, I cannot tell any difference between Dinzags two piece, and my converted w/3 piece G2.

 

Here's a picture with my Russian folder...

Edited April 22, 2009 by fffpatriot

[oxyehho 8]

DamagedWorld - this is a very clear and unambiguous explanation - thank you!

Mods - can we please make it a sticky in the Conversions section?

I see these questions every other day and DamagedWorld as well as others keep reposting this stuff.

 

Thank you!

[Smw421 0]

The Saiga is legal in New Jersey, that's one of the reasons why I got it. You can put a pistol grip on your rifle. New Jersey law is terrible and can be difficult to try and understand. Don't believe everything the state police tell you, they barely know anything. I called them once over another one of our ridiculous gun laws.

 

In New Jersey there is a law that states you can not purchase handgun ammunition without showing your firearms purchaser card, which in turn bans you from buying ammo over the internet. I found this out after looking around to buy ammunition for my Saiga from websites like Ammoman and Midway and discovering that they don't ship ammunition to New Jersey, but cheaperthandirt will, and I wanted to know why. Well, from my own research from the internet I came back with mixed information on its legality, so i called the State Police Firearms Division and spoke with a detective. Basically he told me I couldn't buy handgun ammo over the internet, but when I asked about rifle ammunition, since the law only mentioned handgun ammo, he told me he didn't know. He then told me they would have to ask the state attorney general, and of course that never happened nor will it ever.

 

 

I still don't know whether or not its legal to buy ammunition over the internet (handgun or rifle) and have it shipped here because I have received different stories on its legality. I haven't done it, I don't want to break any laws. I also don't feel like i should have to hire a lawyer to figure out basic state laws.

[VladTepes 160]

The Saiga is legal in New Jersey, that's one of the reasons why I got it. You can put a pistol grip on your rifle. New Jersey law is terrible and can be difficult to try and understand. Don't believe everything the state police tell you, they barely know anything. I called them once over another one of our ridiculous gun laws.

 

In New Jersey there is a law that states you can not purchase handgun ammunition without showing your firearms purchaser card, which in turn bans you from buying ammo over the internet. I found this out after looking around to buy ammunition for my Saiga from websites like Ammoman and Midway and discovering that they don't ship ammunition to New Jersey, but cheaperthandirt will, and I wanted to know why. Well, from my own research from the internet I came back with mixed information on its legality, so i called the State Police Firearms Division and spoke with a detective. Basically he told me I couldn't buy handgun ammo over the internet, but when I asked about rifle ammunition, since the law only mentioned handgun ammo, he told me he didn't know. He then told me they would have to ask the state attorney general, and of course that never happened nor will it ever.

 

 

I still don't know whether or not its legal to buy ammunition over the internet (handgun or rifle) and have it shipped here because I have received different stories on its legality. I haven't done it, I don't want to break any laws. I also don't feel like i should have to hire a lawyer to figure out basic state laws.

 

i have also dealt with the NJSP firearms division and i must have been lucky.. because every time ive called there they have been courteous and helpful..

 

i see no reason you can't buy rifle ammunition, but you obviously can't buy handgun ammo over the net since NJ law requires it be logged...

[TackTickle 0]

DamagedWorld, thank you for your time and explanation. I read it the same way.

 

The police are not law makers or attorneys. They all read it as AK TYPE semi auto. NJ is a zero tolerance state for firearms, all of the LE's I've emailed said the banned weapons list blocks the 2 evil features list. It states andy AK TYPE semi auto is banned, why risk that? You couldn't sue them for false arrest because the laws are written that way. Any attorney is going to say it says type. The SAIGA is the same receiver as an AK47 made in the same factory. It is a sport version until you add the pistol grip and all the sudden its a AK TYPE. You don't mess with the NJ law officers, its not worth it.

 

Anyone have any non pistol grip buttstock suggestions?

Edited April 23, 2009 by Tack Tickle

[Phoenix Maximus 1]

I'm wondering why so many people live in new jersey.... move an hour west and live in PA! we allow almost anything with guns.... liquor is controlled but you can shoot anything

 

 

this is just to you specific people on here, not all people from new jersey... we have enough angry loud mouths who can't drive

[Smw421 0]

The Saiga is legal in New Jersey, that's one of the reasons why I got it. You can put a pistol grip on your rifle. New Jersey law is terrible and can be difficult to try and understand. Don't believe everything the state police tell you, they barely know anything. I called them once over another one of our ridiculous gun laws.

 

In New Jersey there is a law that states you can not purchase handgun ammunition without showing your firearms purchaser card, which in turn bans you from buying ammo over the internet. I found this out after looking around to buy ammunition for my Saiga from websites like Ammoman and Midway and discovering that they don't ship ammunition to New Jersey, but cheaperthandirt will, and I wanted to know why. Well, from my own research from the internet I came back with mixed information on its legality, so i called the State Police Firearms Division and spoke with a detective. Basically he told me I couldn't buy handgun ammo over the internet, but when I asked about rifle ammunition, since the law only mentioned handgun ammo, he told me he didn't know. He then told me they would have to ask the state attorney general, and of course that never happened nor will it ever.

 

 

I still don't know whether or not its legal to buy ammunition over the internet (handgun or rifle) and have it shipped here because I have received different stories on its legality. I haven't done it, I don't want to break any laws. I also don't feel like i should have to hire a lawyer to figure out basic state laws.

 

i have also dealt with the NJSP firearms division and i must have been lucky.. because every time ive called there they have been courteous and helpful..

 

i see no reason you can't buy rifle ammunition, but you obviously can't buy handgun ammo over the net since NJ law requires it be logged...

 

 

Well the NJSP were not rude or anything, I just thought it would be an easy question for them to answer. Its kind of frustrating to not know whether I can purchase ammunition through the internet as some bulk sellers have better prices than local stores or have it in stock. I'm in college right now so money is tight, and I've just taken up the hobby of shooting, which is probably a bad time to start since prices are soaring.

 

What worries me about the whole handgun/rifle ammunition purchasing issue is that some types of ammunition can be used in both rifles and handguns. I have a Sig Sauer Mosquito which fires 22LR, if I get a 22LR rifle will there be a conflict with ordering ammunition online? If that ammunition law only applies to handguns(since the word rifle doesn't appear in the law), it really makes no sense, what if i buy a rifle that shoots 9mm? I'd be ordering ammo for a rifle, but the round is also a handgun round. I don't know if I'm sounding crazy or paranoid here, I just don't want to become a criminal through a stupid mistake.

[TackTickle 0]

The Saiga is legal in New Jersey, that's one of the reasons why I got it. You can put a pistol grip on your rifle. New Jersey law is terrible and can be difficult to try and understand. Don't believe everything the state police tell you, they barely know anything. I called them once over another one of our ridiculous gun laws.

 

In New Jersey there is a law that states you can not purchase handgun ammunition without showing your firearms purchaser card, which in turn bans you from buying ammo over the internet. I found this out after looking around to buy ammunition for my Saiga from websites like Ammoman and Midway and discovering that they don't ship ammunition to New Jersey, but cheaperthandirt will, and I wanted to know why. Well, from my own research from the internet I came back with mixed information on its legality, so i called the State Police Firearms Division and spoke with a detective. Basically he told me I couldn't buy handgun ammo over the internet, but when I asked about rifle ammunition, since the law only mentioned handgun ammo, he told me he didn't know. He then told me they would have to ask the state attorney general, and of course that never happened nor will it ever.

 

 

I still don't know whether or not its legal to buy ammunition over the internet (handgun or rifle) and have it shipped here because I have received different stories on its legality. I haven't done it, I don't want to break any laws. I also don't feel like i should have to hire a lawyer to figure out basic state laws.

 

i have also dealt with the NJSP firearms division and i must have been lucky.. because every time ive called there they have been courteous and helpful..

 

i see no reason you can't buy rifle ammunition, but you obviously can't buy handgun ammo over the net since NJ law requires it be logged...

 

 

Well the NJSP were not rude or anything, I just thought it would be an easy question for them to answer. Its kind of frustrating to not know whether I can purchase ammunition through the internet as some bulk sellers have better prices than local stores or have it in stock. I'm in college right now so money is tight, and I've just taken up the hobby of shooting, which is probably a bad time to start since prices are soaring.

 

What worries me about the whole handgun/rifle ammunition purchasing issue is that some types of ammunition can be used in both rifles and handguns. I have a Sig Sauer Mosquito which fires 22LR, if I get a 22LR rifle will there be a conflict with ordering ammunition online? If that ammunition law only applies to handguns(since the word rifle doesn't appear in the law), it really makes no sense, what if i buy a rifle that shoots 9mm? I'd be ordering ammo for a rifle, but the round is also a handgun round. I don't know if I'm sounding crazy or paranoid here, I just don't want to become a criminal through a stupid mistake.

I agree. They purposely write the laws so it's up in the air what is really set in stone in NJ. It would be ridiculous to be arrested for something legal. The second you try to reason with most NJ officers you start to dig yourself a deeper hole.

Best ammo deals I have found in NJ are at Dick's Sporting Goods when they have their sales by the case. They have pretty decent prices to start with!

Shore Shot Pistol Range in Lakewood NJ has great ammo prices for their members!

[oxyehho 8]

Best ammo deals I have found in NJ are at Dick's Sporting Goods when they have their sales by the case. They have pretty decent prices to start with!

Shore Shot Pistol Range in Lakewood NJ has great ammo prices for their members!

+1 on Dick's for handgun ammo - I always clear them out when they have a case sale

Been to Shore Shot and it's a great range and store. Loved their range officer - very knowledgeable old dude, but since I'm not a member and they force you to buy their ammo, it was a pretty expensive affair. Also, I think they are the only place in NJ which rents out handguns.

[sussexhillbilly 0]

<rant> I would just like to say Jersey sucks. Here we are splitting hairs to keep our rifles legal, and an LEO will arrest, confiscate and generally turn your life upside down because it 'looks' illegal. Then why are they sold in NJ? I passed the BS checks, they phoned in the model and caliber - why is it sold if it is illegal? The answer is it is not illegal, but as someone mentioned earlier, it will all get sorted out, at your expense, from behind bars. What a state. I can't wait to leave. </rant>

 

To the OP, regarding the buttstock, I know you like the Monte Carlo style or whatever, but what about the skeleton stock that Saigas are also sold with? I'm 'pretty sure' it isn't considered a PG (it isn't prominent below the rifle or whatever crap) and they are actually sold in that configuration. I'm not sure too many options are out there otherwise.

 

Interesting how you work with the computer crimes or whatever but the 5-0 treat you like a terrorist? Can't you flash tin or something? Dontha have any pull? If you're emailing all your LEO contacts, why not get a PBA card from one of them!!!

[TackTickle 0]

I did see that stock and thought it didn't look too bad.

LE in Jersey all go to the Army camps and basically learn scare tactics to provide a "control situation". I have cards, Cheif of Police cards, etc. Doesn't matter when the state has little tolerance. I carry a copies of the receipt of payment, registration forms, etc when I'm traveling to the range. I go with LE to the range sometimes, and it's not worth getting into it with them. You pull out a card and your from another town they think "ohh look at the tough guy with connections...". In a town nearby they arrested their Senior officer for drunk driving, put the video from their patrol car up on the internet of him swerving back and forth. Sad! However, I would say there are AWESOME LE officers out there, but a lot are not and you do not want to get stuck with one of them!!!

Edited April 23, 2009 by Tack Tickle