swon 0 Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) ... a 5.45X39 Saiga is not listed on the Izhmash website. They do have a Saiga listed in the 5.6 caliber but it looks like an un-importable military rifle with a folding stock. They also have an AK74M listed and a couple of the 100 series 5.45 rifles but again they are military in origin. I don't believe they have Sporterized either of these rifles for US importation. I was just curious to find out if anyone has seen one or converted one and how it shoots? I am converting a 7.62X39 Saiga into 5.45X39 with a Bulgarian Military demilled rifle kit. It is being built by Troy Sellars at InRange and will have a Red Star Arms FCG and K-VAR US stock set. I have never fired a 5.45X39 round but find this caliber interesting. Ammunition costs a bit more but shouldn't be too hard to find. The Izhmash Saiga rifles don't have the magazine dimples, as they are built on the 7.62 receiver. That will be the main difference in my converted AK-74. No big deal to me! Krebs lists the 5.45 rifles but their $1100 cost is unbelievable. With all of the parts purchased I will have $700 in my conversion. High but doable! I would like to start this thread about the 5.45 rifles and their variants. Please post any information you have about them. Thanks, swon Edited December 13, 2003 by swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Mohr 0 Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 They make one in .223. How much of a difference is there between that and 5.45x39? They would both pretty much be a high powered .22 cal gun. I have never seen a 5.45x39 though, or have any idea how it compares to the .223 ballistically. Or is it just the idea behind it. You know, you want a gun in that chambering simply to have one. Nothing wrong with that I guess if you can afford it or desire it bad enough. I did a fair amount of research before I bought mine, and I am pretty sure they do not have Saiga in that chambering. I thought I read something somewhere that it may be an option at a later date. Along with a 30-06 version. You could Email EAA, they might know for sure. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shotgun_lobotomy 0 Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 5.45x39 is a evil round and in my opinion much better than the .223. my gun dealer says that its almost armor piercing and if im not mistaken its made to fishtail thro soft tissue creating a bigger wound channel plus the tip is longer and more like a needle haha but dont take my word for it, i have only shot one and ive never been a fan of .223 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swon 0 Posted December 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Yes, I believe the 5.45X39 is made with a hollow cavity in the frontal area of the bullet. This upsets the stability and causes the bullet to tumble in soft tissue. My reasoning for building this rifle is: I've heard good things about this cartridge and sold off some other rifles I no longer needed to finance the project. I have more than enough to do it and have already aquired accessories for the rifle. Next is ammunition. I might take the rifle as a backup weapon, to a Carbine Class I've been wanting to take. I have and have had numerous rifles .223, mostly Bushmaster XM15s but the list includes an FNC, a Colt SP1, numerous CAR15s, a Mini 14, Daewoo K1, etc... I desire an AUG but the cost keeps me just wishing I would have bought a truckload when they were $450. I might build an H&K 93 after the US receivers become available. These .223 rifles aren't made for hunting although I have taken game with them. My uses for them are for lightweight ranch type rifles for protection on my farm and taking pests or nuisance animals. My M4 works very well for this. Coyotes are becoming numerous in my area and you never know when you might happen across one or one might happen across you. They hit our deer population hard and I will shoot everyone of them I see. The 5.45 AK will also assume this role in my collection. Thanks for the reply posts gentlemen, swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Mohr 0 Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 I checked the ballistics of the two and they are pretty close like I figured they would be. With the 5.56 cartridge you have a slight edge, which would be expected since it is the bigger of the two both in caliber and cartridge length. It looks like the 5.45 is much harder to get ammo for, and you can pretty much forget about getting any kind hunting ammo that expands well for it. If it were me I would choose the 5.56. Much more practicle in the long run, but the 5.45 would be more authentic if that was what you were looking for. I personally would not spend that much money on a AK irregardless of caliber. Then again you guys most likely would not spend 3 or 4 hundred dollars on a High def decoder for a tv either, and I did. To each his own I guess. Have fun, that's the point I guess. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swon 0 Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 (edited) I understand Paul and I'm not happy that I have $700 bucks in this thing but I couldn't find a Russian AK-74. The closest I could find was a Romanian rifle and I've heard of and seen the quality of those weapons. They just don't come close to the quality of the Russian weapons. I have never owned one but I've seen a few. Plus, I have numerous .223 rifles already so it's more than just the caliber, for me. My Pre-Ban Bushmaster M4 is hard to beat for a .223, contrary to what the AR bashers say it is a very reliable weapon and I have never had a jamming problem with them. As for the 74, it's more of an authentic up to date Soviet weapon and the fact that it's Russian is a big plus for me. As I said it's just for plinking and I might use it at a Carbine Class as a backup weapon. I haven't purchased any 5.45 ammunition yet, but 5.45 soft point ammo is very plentiful. Shotgun News has numerous adds for it. It's a little pricer than FMJ ammo but it's available. swon Edited December 16, 2003 by swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swon 0 Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 (edited) I know what you mean, most guys wouldn't spend over $16,000 rebuilding an old 1976 Toyota Land Cruiser either but I've got a nice one that I drive daily. I also have a 1998 Buell S1W that I have drag raced a little. It's mostly street driven but I'd put it up against most any Sportster or Big Twin Harley. It's a sportbike build by Harley with a very hot Sportster engine. I'm getting about 115hp to the rear wheel. It's a legitimate 10 second bike in the quarter. You don't want to know how much I have in it. I could never get it back out of it. My wife says when I go she's throwing it in the hole with me. swon Edited December 16, 2003 by swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest zoso_thomas Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 swon, I have just bought a Saiga from Izhmash. I paid $225. It is a .223 cal. and looks very similar to the one you have posted. The difference is the pistol grip is receeded on mine, more in the stock. Do you know about how much they should sell for? I think I got a good deal. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swon 0 Posted May 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 If it a US spec Saiga rifle I have seen them for about $250. I am still waiting on InRange to finish my Saiga conversion. They have had it so long I am considering leaving it with them until the AWB sunsets and having a side-folding AK-74M stock put on it. swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 swon: Back when I was a kid, we had a small chicken barn that used to attract everything from rats to wild dogs. I used to sit out at night with a .22 bolt rifle with shotshells and solids loaded alternately and plug rats till dawn. I tell ya one thing, up close and personal with the wild dogs was not anything i would want to use anything but buckshot or 12 gauge slugs on. If I recall correctly, the night my father and I waited for the dogs to come try to take more chickens, he plugged them with the 12 gauge and I coup de graced them with the .22. The ones that we didnt shoot never came back, and would avoid the area by about 1/4 mile. I would seriously consider a semi auto shotgun if you have a dog problem on your farm, but if you have an area that is good for hunting from distances past 50 yards, which I assume that you do because you say "farm", your M4 probably is a better choice. Up close and personal I seriously would consider a 12 gauge, though. Have you tried the saiga 12 yet? you should check it out if you havent. Everyone that I have let shoot mine wants one after the first magazine....everyone from good ole' boys to state police. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Bvamp, You're probably right the Saiga-12 would be a good choice for upclose dog control. We don't ready have much of a problem, right now! Last year, we had some coyotes in the area but they seem to have thinned out some. It's just a matter of time before they come back. The areas around us seem to be getting more and more. The rifle is more for personal protection as this is a very rural area and someone could take a shot at me at anytime. I don't worry about that or look for it to happen but nobody ever expects it to happen to them. Yesterday, I received my 5.45X39 Saiga conversion back from InRange. Overall, I am very pleased with the rifle. Troy didn't weld up the holes on the underside of the receiver. I thought I asked about that but maybe I didn't. That will need to be taken care of. The bayonet lugs are welded up and the brake has a small bead of weld on it also. After the ban sunsets it should be easy to grind those welds down so the bayonet will go on and the new US made muzzlebrake will thread on. The rifle has an original Russian light brown sling and a new Russian PK-S01 Black Dot/Red Dot sight. I have all of the Russian accessories for the rifle. It seems to be a good representation of a Russian AK-74. It does not have the magazine dimples but I don't see that as a problem. The Bulgarian magazines fit tight into the mag well and are not loose at all. I have $877 in the rifle not including the accessories. Quite a bit of money but worth it I feel for a Russian rifle. The ironic thing is that my case of 5.45X39 ammo hasn't arrived so I can shoot it. swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timg953 0 Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 5.45X39mm Saigas were advertised around 1994-1995. I beleive B-West imported them, maybe Davidson's. I recall the ads because I was excited about the prosprct of finally getting a weapon in that caliber and stocking them in the shop as an alternative to the Mini-14 ( this was around the time Bill Ruger was trying to screw Colt by supporting the AW ban). I don't beleive many of these ever actually entered the country, I have never seen one but they were advertised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swon 0 Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 (edited) It's been awhile since I've been on the site. I thought that I would post a picture of my 5.45X39 Saiga rifle. It's been almost 3 months since I received the rifle and I still haven't shot it yet. I have decided to send it to another gunsmith and have some things that I don't like fixed. swon Edited August 18, 2004 by swon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrapathy2000 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 (edited) dont believe they made a saiga in 5.45x39. where is it legal to hunt with 5.45x39? with deer? sure its nice for varmints. check the russian sites havent seen any that mention 5.45x39 saiga. its not listed on the manufactures website www.Izmash.ru I do see a 5.6x39 version of the saiga my understanding is it is not the same as 5.45x39. Edited August 18, 2004 by mrapathy2000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) Edited August 19, 2004 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 I was going to say : I saw one on gun broker or guns america or somethin'. 5.45X39! what really is the difference from the .223? little bullet traviling really fast. same price bassically. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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