Saiga 12 Universal Magwell

[dc2bar 0]

Sorry if this has been discussed or thought of before, but here are my thoughts on a magwell that would be truly universal. Could this be a feasible method? If no, why not? If yes, any smiths be willing to experiment? i'll volunteer my saiga, if it fails the fix to go back to 100% stock would be simple as patching a metal square back into the receiver.

 

Anyway, away we go:

 

Looking at the existing lock and rock mechanism of the S12, it's obvious why it's a pain (inverted angle of shells entering after front tab locked in). However, with a simple mod to the receiver I believe we will have a much, much easier way to load any S12 capable magazine.

 

 

 

The rear locking tab is a pivoting spring lock (red circle) that lets the rear lug pass over it smoothly, then once it's passed completely over it springs forward and locks the rear lug into place. The front is a solid piece of metal that is designed for the user to manually lock the tab onto it. Why can't we add a sliding spring tab/lock to the yellow area to make the front behave like the rear (let the lug pass over then lock)? The only magazine modification that i can think of that would need to be done is a tiny bit of material be removed from the sides of the front lug so that the forward forces of the magazine when shooting would be pressed against the receiver itself instead of the locking tab and risking it moving forward.

 

Does this make any sense?

 

Let me clarify what I mean by sliding spring tab/lock. The bolt carrier is basically a giant one when the recoil spring is in. However, instead of the rails like we have inside the gun, the body of the receiver with a square cut in it will be the receiver. I would try to illustrate the whole mechanism i'm imagining, but i'm terrible at CAD.

 

(edit: sorry about the title, i meant to add a "?" but didn't notice i forgot to until i already posted)

Edited July 8, 2009 by dc2bar

[dc2bar 0]

yikes, scratch this idea. Just went over to my machinist buddy's place. He suggested many other way simpler mechanisms to accomplish the same thing. They'll all work on stick mags but when he pulled out his MD20 it's glaringly obvious there's no clearance for anything at under there =/

[StarPD 6]

No offense, but I suspect one of the reasons you don't see anything like what you describe may be that it's not really necessary. Rocking and locking a loaded mag into an S-12 isn't really that difficult once one gets the hang of it. It's the same system as used on the AK and FN-FAL families, both of which at one time armed almost the entire world. The entire USSR, combloc nations, and third world countries used the AK variants, and 90 countries in the free world used the FAL and its variants. That system worked quite well, even for the many illiterate peasants who relied on them in less developed countries.

 

The system in the S-12 is a proven one that has worked for many decades.

[VanKiller 322]

Been there and done that. Sounds great, doesn't work out so well, nasty recoil gets things moving when they shouldn't. This is another idea in a box of parts and pieces. If the Russians ever slow down on the vodka specials for me to warranty I might get back to it. I've sketched out a mechanical solution to this, but again........I'm busy as a three legged cat in a litter box, coverin up crap..........

[dc2bar 0]

No offense, but I suspect one of the reasons you don't see anything like what you describe may be that it's not really necessary. Rocking and locking a loaded mag into an S-12 isn't really that difficult once one gets the hang of it. It's the same system as used on the AK and FN-FAL families, both of which at one time armed almost the entire world. The entire USSR, combloc nations, and third world countries used the AK variants, and 90 countries in the free world used the FAL and its variants. That system worked quite well, even for the many illiterate peasants who relied on them in less developed countries.

 

The system in the S-12 is a proven one that has worked for many decades.

 

oh don't get me wrong, it's definitely a proven magazine system, but it's far from the most optimum. Soldiers lining up for battle worked for decades during the revolutionary period too, but it wasn't exactly the best idea. Also, magwell type setups are much faster than rock and lock systems on the S12; a huge factor for us race gun guys.

 

The magwell they offer here is great, was planning on picking up one this week anyway, but it's kind of disappointing it means no more MD20 for me if i decide to put one on.

 

Hopefully VanKiller can dream something up soon =)

[corbin 621]

I think Gunfixr has something like this, if I remember right. I wouldn't be surprised if others do as well. It's my understanding that the recoil of a 12 ga causes the mechanism to shift back and forth a little, and can release the front of the magazine. I haven't tried this setup myself, so I can't say for sure.

 

I'd almost want side locking catches that wouldn't be affected by recoil, but I have no idea how you'd do that.

 

 

Corbin

[Reverendfranz 160]

I think Krebs used to have a spring loaded front latch on some of their builds, might want to dig through some old gunmags and see if you can find any details. I think it was as simple as a springloaded triangular crossbar in the place of the trunnion lip. Though, as mentioned, you do have to make sure you are accommodating for recoil, but are still able to insert a mag. Be a bunch of work, but im sure it could be done one way or another.

 

Would it actually be any better than rock and lock? who knows.