Night Vision

[1337cshacker 0]

468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

 

From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/244.php

 

Does this mean ALL night vision devices are... Illegal? I have heard it is "anti-surveillance", but seriously?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Holy shit balls. I knew Cali was bad, but outlawing NV scopes?

 

I know it's always useless to apply common sense and logic to these types of laws, but.............really? How many murders/illegal deeds in Cali are done with the aid of a NV scope? I'm willing to bet not many.

 

Does this mean ALL night vision devices are... Illegal? I have heard it is "anti-surveillance", but seriously?

 

If everything capable of NV is illegal in Cali, then say goodbye to pretty much every modern video camera. I remember dicking around with a friend's parent's video camera back in like 10th grade (so about 1999-ish) and it was a cheap one. Even it had pretty good NV capabilities.

[zenmetsu 17]

468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

 

WTF?! So if you lawfully had a device in storage, discovered this retarded law, you are fucked? You cannot get rid of the device by selling it. You cannot hide it (conceal), and you cannot dispose of it... WHAT THE HELL

 

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm

 

If it does not attach to the gun, it is not "ON" the gun...

 

which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

 

Light amplification devices do not use PROJECTED light, they amplify existing light. In addition, a 1X device which provides no magnification could not be considered a TELESCOPE. The "AND" clause there kinda cripples this law. It is very poorly written and has numerous loopholes.

 

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

 

How the hell is a NV enabled sniper scope going to be used in a scientific or educational way?

 

This law is seriously in need of revision (aka deletion).

 

Everyone I have ever met from California bitches about the ridiculous laws, excessive gun restrictions, high cost of living, traffic and pollution in the big cities, and illegal immigrants stealing their jobs and mucking up the place. Remind the rest of us again why you all choose to continue living there? I must be missing out on something. You all get free cookies on Fridays or something? Maybe they have really good Kool-aid there. I dunno.

Edited August 18, 2009 by zenmetsu

[1337cshacker 0]

I have a pair of ATN cougars, they do NOT attach to a weapon, so I'm sure I'm NOT affected by this law now. Scared me though for a min... This is NOT a cali specific law, pretty sure this is COUNTRY WIDE.

 

This would (what do I mean would, DOES,) make every online vendor who sell NVG scopes a misdemeanor, because there are some. The site where I bought my ATN cougars sells them WITH built in aiming sights.

 

Listen government, I live in a golf course gated community, but one side is not gated and by my house is an easy opening for any criminal in my town to get in. When was the last time a golf course community robbed in the day light, NEVER? If the power goes out our only camera in the neighborhood goes DOWN. I NEED Night Vision for me/my family's personal security. ALSO, to POSITIVELY identify a threat, I do not want to shoot my neighbor's daughter sneaking back into her house, or another innocent person. I would just shoot my freaking self I could not live with that. THIS IS A NECESSITY for me. I want who I hit, if that situation ever came, to be POSITIVELY identified as someone who does not live there and is trying to break in/cause havoc. I would always call a warning before a shot anyway, hopefully they would just run under the threat of an armed citizen with a brain. I can EASILY head mount my NVG and use iron sites... That being said, THIS LAW MAKES NO DAMN SENSE, and should be removed, IMMEDIATELY. The head mount makes you even MORE stealth because there is no green light illuminating your face, my cougars have eye pieces that eliminate all of the backlight on your face. TACTICAL, not tacticool. I will be mailing these people once the hell again to tell them how total fools they are by inhibiting the American Peoples will and right to defend themselves.

 

TYRANNY!

TYRANNY!

TYRANNY!

TYRANNY!

TYRANNY!

TYRANNY!

 

Everyone I have ever met from California bitches about the ridiculous laws, excessive gun restrictions, high cost of living, traffic and pollution in the big cities, and illegal immigrants stealing their jobs and mucking up the place. Remind the rest of us again why you all choose to continue living there? I must be missing out on something. You all get free cookies on Fridays or something? Maybe they have really good Kool-aid there. I dunno.

HA! Cali is basically a third world nation. Slave wages, illegals everywhere with no cops deporting them when the drink and drive or do other things. The deportations you see in movies are BS, this RARELY happens. Since they are not in the system they can not be liable under our laws, what's to stop them from killing us all with they're full autos, and we, the good American People, are limited to 10 rounds there. Seriously... Do they really think criminals get weapons on the black market that are 10 round capacity? REALITY CHECK.

 

And read the last section on switch blades. SERIOUSLY?!

Edited August 18, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[zenmetsu 17]

I wonder... the human eye can see infrared to some extent. I have built goggles that block all but a very very small amount of blue light while allowing infrared to pass unfiltered. You take these out in bright sunlight and you cannot see anything for a few moments. Once your eyes adjust though... HOLY CRAP... It is pretty amazing what the human eyes can do. You can spot people wearing camo with these because they show up very dark and foliage is a very bright pinkish color. You can also spot game in the bushes more easily since the glare from the leaves is subdued and you can see into the shadows with much more ease.

 

Now what if you were a freak of nature and could naturally boosted IR detection ability. Would the government confiscate your eyes? Would they try to ban IR lighting?

 

Makes me wonder.

 

Oh, and here is a link to instructions for those goggles if ya are interested. Link Do not look at the sun with these... IR is what burns shit and these pretty much pass most of the IR. With your pupils opened fully due to the goggles, they will probably allow way too much IR in and lead to blindness... common sense but never hurts to warn people.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Interestingly, most web cams are partial-infrared, they rely on a filter to block most IR radiation. If you have one, turn it on and point a remote control at it, you'll probably see a white flash.

[1337cshacker 0]

Now what if you were a freak of nature and could naturally boosted IR detection ability. Would the government confiscate your eyes? Would they try to ban IR lighting?

If they did it would not surprise me. They have about everything BUT your eyes today, why not them be next...

 

Vbr, interesting, LOL.

Edited August 18, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[22_Shooter 1,560]

This is NOT a cali specific law, pretty sure this is COUNTRY WIDE.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not country wide.

[1337cshacker 0]

This is NOT a cali specific law, pretty sure this is COUNTRY WIDE.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not country wide.

I could not find anywhere where it stated that. Since I couldn't I implied that it was country wide. Where do you see this is only for a few states, I saw you mention Cali. Can you pick that out for me?

[Zoojelly 0]

This is NOT a cali specific law, pretty sure this is COUNTRY WIDE.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not country wide.

I could not find anywhere where it stated that. Since I couldn't I implied that it was country wide. Where do you see this is only for a few states, I saw you mention Cali. Can you pick that out for me?

 

You gotta be kiddin' the reference to cali is right there in the link name and on top the page that opens "ca" means california.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

This is NOT a cali specific law, pretty sure this is COUNTRY WIDE.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not country wide.

I could not find anywhere where it stated that. Since I couldn't I implied that it was country wide. Where do you see this is only for a few states, I saw you mention Cali. Can you pick that out for me?

 

As Zoojelly has already said.....it says California right on the page you linked to. Also, the "ca" in the address gave it away.

 

As far as it not being country wide.....I've never heard of this law at all before. Not that that means anything, really. But you'd figure most people (on a site like this) would know about something as asinine as this law.

 

Lot's of people use NV setups behind their red dots. Go look around Arfcom.

[aresv 49]

...through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

 

It only restricts NV when used with active IR illumination. Passive starlight and thermal appears to be legal.... but I would not expect retard lawmakers to know the difference.

[1337cshacker 0]

What about "counter surveillance". Anyone heard of that crap before? because I have heard of someone I know with jail time (3 months) and confiscation of the night vision. It was in my state (al) and was in his car in a checkpoint.

[1337cshacker 0]

What about "counter surveillance". Anyone heard of that crap before? because I have heard of someone I know with jail time (3 months) and confiscation of the night vision. It was in my state (al) and was in his car in a checkpoint.

Bump

Edited August 23, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[fxhart 14]

What about "counter surveillance". Anyone heard of that crap before? because I have heard of someone I know with jail time (3 months) and confiscation of the night vision. It was in my state (al) and was in his car in a checkpoint.

 

 

 

WHat was the charge and what was the checkpoint?

[1337cshacker 0]

I do not know the charge, nor does he. Now I do know that under the Patriot Act section 802b. says that you can be held for anything. Charges don't matter anymore if they are seriously pissed at you. The cops in this town are DICKS and will try to get you for anything. They know the people here cannot afford lawyers here for the most parts, nor do they know their rights. He was eventually let out a week later with no court date but a hefty fine and confiscation of the night vision device. It was a pair similar to mine. All he ever heard as far as a charge, was possession of counter surveillance device.

 

I almost feel like getting a lawyer now and suing the police personally then suing the state. Would probably loose though because we live in tyranny. In tyranny you do not get a fair trial or justice. All you get is your teenagers arrested for marijuana and illegal citizen drunk drivers let go free.

 

The checkpoint he said was on highway 27 south Alabama below enterprise.

 

I once drove though a checkpoint with the people I work with, they are big wig ex-military, we are a defense contractor called Navigator, ndgi.com. We got a "oh navigator, go on through see you later now." If we were black people in a ratted car we would be strip searched. This is highly unjust.

 

If it were me, who can afford a lawyer, I would have those cops thrown in jail more than likely and have my NVG back it sounds like after talking to him again.

 

Though, under section 802b YOU DON'T GET A LAWYER, or speak to family, or anything, unlimited amount of time holding with no trial if they please.

 

Read the patriot act, especially that section. It will blow your dicks off.

Edited August 30, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[Bvamp 604]

ya know, I just gotta ask the OP to explain their username. and yes, I know the origin of "1337". it came from using port 31337 and 1337 on IRC hosts and trojan horses back in the day (yes I can name both and show you original source code to both that used those two ports). please explain the username, though. do you play counterstrike or somethin? that type of nick tickles me pink when I see them.

 

 

 

now, as for the patriot act, and seizure of any small arms or components thereof without a warrant, I hear ya! neat, aint it? the best part is, they dont have to give shit back.... go figure!

 

checkpoints in california, the state of mass illegal immigration (because SW US is Mexico, didnt ya'll know? pssh) , mass gang "cool factor" and mass "medical" marijuana usage? who would need checkpoints there? Sounds like a great place to live, if you ask me reminds me of a 60's phrase......peace love and dune buggies, but dont touch my stash or ill KILL YA.

 

calguns.net has a foundation for illegal arms charges, maybe you should seek out their assistance or help. they are better suited to dealing with this type of thing, in your case.

 

 

I do have to ask the obvious question, though. and Im NOT defending any law mentioned above.....but.....

 

can you hunt at night in california? can you fire a small arm at night in california? no, right? other than a critter invading your home.....and even then, probably not......

 

so one should ask the obvious then.....what use is a NV scope if you cant even uncork it and use it? (NV goes bad if exposed to daylight) ....what could you even do with it? I dont get it. Its kinda like having a personal Saturn V.....looks cool, but fuck all can ya use it for?

 

then again, if i were going to pick someone or something off at 600 yards at 2am in the morning, I wouldnt be too worried about a permit for any NV optic or suppressor or high cap mag, assault weapon, or anything like that, now would I? Instead of making all that stuff illegal, why not just charge the offender with 1st degree murder and hang them? Oh wait, that would make too much sense.....

 

I bet they actually think the laws they have passed out there have helped curb violent gun crimes, too.....I wonder if they even realise that those guys that shot up the neighborhood during that bank robbery (in which the cops were way underarmed until they raided a civilian gun shop) had illegal firearms at the time, and were wearing illegally possessed body armor at the time, as well.

 

Oh, I have anxiety this morning, I need to go see the doctor and get down to the DMV for my medical marijuana card......

[Azrial 1,091]

I wonder... the human eye can see infrared to some extent. ... Now what if you were a freak of nature and could naturally boosted IR detection ability....

When I was younger I could always tell if the IR light source was on or not. I could not see by it, but I could not find anyone else who could tell without feeling for heat.

How common is that? I have no idea, but as a young man I had incredible night vision compaired to my friends.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Azrial

[1337cshacker 0]

Hey Bvamp, how about you explain your name?

 

Show the sources for that 31337 port number. Where I come from it was popularized by counter strike, the skin model "terrorist, l33t crew'

 

It means leet computer systems hacker. Not counter strike, though that is a common misconception. I build computers for a living and have hacked video card bios's/circuitry to unlock pipelines for people I know. Though no cards today are worth unlocking, about everything plays everything, especially DX9. DX10 is different story ofcourse.

 

The whole point of this thread was to figure out if my head mounted non-weapon mountable night vision was legal. Tbh, fuck california, I do not live there and the people there have ACCEPTED slavery to that degree. So the hell with them I consider cali not part of the union, even though they operate as such. They have a govenator that dreams of being the worlds sole leader, and has deep Nazi ties. (exposearnold.com) "The amount of tyranny you will live under is the amount you will tolerate."