Side Mounts for Optics

[EreadM 0]

I want to put an optic on my rifle most likely just a red dot sight. Now I've seen and red all about the ultimak rail and it looks nice and all, but seems like it would be a real pain in the butt whenever you decided to take the gas tube off for cleaning. My question is how good do the side optic mounts work? Obviously you have to remove them in order to clean the rifle. I guess my biggest concern is do they hold zero at all or do you end up having to zero the optic everytime you remove it for cleaning? Hopefully some of ya'll have had experience with these and can help me out, and if so perhaps theirs some mounts which are better than others.

[kresk 10,063]

Google Eastwave and look at their Russian-made side mounts (hi or low.)

[jimdigriz 580]

I tried my Ultimak this last weekend and decided to switch to the side mount rail. (Too easy for careless me to burn my fingers on the Ultimak gas tube after lots of firing). I've got a K-VAR KV-04S rail which I've had for a while but only played with a little. I'm putting the Aimpoint back on it and will report back about whether it holds zero this weekend. I plan to remove it several times and put it back on, and see what the result is.

 

See this old thread of mine for a pics of it mounted on my wife's rifle before I converted it:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=45587&st=0&p=421783entry421783

 

If the rail holds zero and works for me, I will dremel off some of it to make it shorter, since the Aimpoint Micro doesn't need nearly that much space to live on.

 

Jim

Edited January 20, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[jimdigriz 580]

Google Eastwave and look at their Russian-made side mounts (hi or low.)

 

I only see the BP-02 on their website. Certainly a solid mount, but the K-VAR mount will probably be a better choice if it holds zero well enough. The BP-02 weighs 11+ ounces while the KV-04S weighs only 7+. It doesn't seem like much, but it adds up if you're toting the rifle around. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the K-VAR mount will be more centered over the barrel than the BP-02 (?).

[EreadM 0]

Google Eastwave and look at their Russian-made side mounts (hi or low.)

 

I only see the BP-02 on their website. Certainly a solid mount, but the K-VAR mount will probably be a better choice if it holds zero well enough. The BP-02 weighs 11+ ounces while the KV-04S weighs only 7+. It doesn't seem like much, but it adds up if you're toting the rifle around. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the K-VAR mount will be more centered over the barrel than the BP-02 (?).

 

 

Definitely get back to me once you've tested that mount out. I've just read a lot of things on other boards and reviews where folks say sometimes the side mounts hold zero and sometimes they don't. Thanks for the input too.

[jimdigriz 580]

Definitely get back to me once you've tested that mount out. I've just read a lot of things on other boards and reviews where folks say sometimes the side mounts hold zero and sometimes they don't. Thanks for the input too.

 

Will do. I'm eager to find out myself.

 

I'll accept about a quarter of an inch variation at 25 yards, but I'm hoping for less. I'll have to fire numerous groups to account for possible shooter error though.

 

Jim

[jimdigriz 580]

Guys, I tested the zero-retention for the K-VAR side mount rail, but I'm sorry to report that the result is indeterminate. It appears that the rail holds zero when you unmount and remount, but I did my test near the end of the session, with the barrel already very hot and me somewhat fatigued. So out of 6 separate 5 shot groups, two of those groups appear questionable, but I think they are probably attributable to shooter error. I'll try it again next week at the beginning of the session, when the gun and I are both fresh. (I spent much of the first part of the session zeroing my red dot sight).

[EreadM 0]

Okay Jim, I'll be looking forward to hearing back from you after you test it out again. Thanks for your input and helping me out on this subject so far.

[GregM1 241]

Is the K-var able to tighten to fit for different size ak rails? I know my BP-02 does. Found it for 35$ on GB not to long ago. It's camo but I will probably paint it.

[jimdigriz 580]

Is the K-var able to tighten to fit for different size ak rails? I know my BP-02 does. Found it for 35$ on GB not to long ago. It's camo but I will probably paint it.

 

The locking block is adjustable, but I don't know if that's what you are referring to. I had to loosen it slightly to allow it to fit the Saiga rail.

 

Here's a picture of the mechanism:

Edited January 25, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[GregM1 241]

Thanks for the pic Jim, thats just what I was referring too. That is a lot different than the BP-02 mechanism.

[jimdigriz 580]

Thanks for the pic Jim, thats just what I was referring too. That is a lot different than the BP-02 mechanism.

 

I've heard complaints on another forum that the mount simply wouldn't go on some AK rails at all. Seems to work fine with Saigas though.

[sh00ter 4]

i use the type of mount that is pictured in above post - in fact i use 2 of them, one with a dot and one with a scope on. I take them on and off all the time and for me, they are acceptable - if i was being picky then the scope may need a click or 2 but the red dot hasnt been adjusted since i put it on. Probably down to me wanting more from the scope and expecting less from the dot tbh.

 

If i was offering advice then i would say that it is "the" best way to mount an optic, certainly compared to either the dust cover or gas tube, whichever way you look at it there is more potential for movement in those than the mount system designed for these rifles.

Edited January 25, 2010 by sh00ter

[jimdigriz 580]

i use the type of mount that is pictured in above post - in fact i use 2 of them, one with a dot and one with a scope on. I take them on and off all the time and for me, they are acceptable - if i was being picky then the scope may need a click or 2 but the red dot hasnt been adjusted since i put it on. Probably down to me wanting more from the scope and expecting less from the dot tbh.

 

Sh00ter, do you mean that you have two of the K-VAR mounts, or just two side mounts of whatever type? I'm interested because I'm trying to ascertain how closely the K-VAR mount holds zero.

 

If i was offering advice then i would say that it is "the" best way to mount an optic, certainly compared to either the dust cover or gas tube, whichever way you look at it there is more potential for movement in those than the mount system designed for these rifles.

 

The Ultimak is pretty solid, and weighs less than a side mount system. I was too prone to burn my fingers on it though. I realize that you can train yourself to avoid that. More importantly for me, the Ultimak complicated cleaning when using corrosive ammo.

 

Jim

[sh00ter 4]

i use the type of mount that is pictured in above post - in fact i use 2 of them, one with a dot and one with a scope on. I take them on and off all the time and for me, they are acceptable - if i was being picky then the scope may need a click or 2 but the red dot hasnt been adjusted since i put it on. Probably down to me wanting more from the scope and expecting less from the dot tbh.

 

If i was offering advice then i would say that it is "the" best way to mount an optic, certainly compared to either the dust cover or gas tube, whichever way you look at it there is more potential for movement in those than the mount system designed for these rifles.

[EreadM 0]

So in otherwords your saying you have two KVAR side mounts that pretty much hold zero good, not the BP-02 you were talking about that you also have right?

[sh00ter 4]

oops sorry bout the double post...

 

the mounts i have were just cheapys off ebay, they are identical to the one pictured in above post, in that they have the lever (that is adjustable) to lock it on. Both mounts are the same, all i did when i got them was strip them down and loctite the rail screws, then adjust the lever tightness

[Rockhound 0]

I use this mount for my Saiga 223. I am happy with it.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=990185

[EreadM 0]

I use this mount for my Saiga 223. I am happy with it.

How well does that mount hold zero, is it lower profile or does it sit up pretty high, and is it centered over the barrel?

Edited January 28, 2010 by EreadM

[EreadM 0]

Is the K-var able to tighten to fit for different size ak rails? I know my BP-02 does. Found it for 35$ on GB not to long ago. It's camo but I will probably paint it.

 

The locking block is adjustable, but I don't know if that's what you are referring to. I had to loosen it slightly to allow it to fit the Saiga rail.

 

Here's a picture of the mechanism:

Hey Jim, would you consider the KVAR mount low profile? Is there anyway you could get a picture of how it looks on the rifle?

[jimdigriz 580]

Hey Jim, would you consider the KVAR mount low profile? Is there anyway you could get a picture of how it looks on the rifle?

 

It is low profile, but still too high for co-witness. You just barely have room to remove the top cover while the optic is mounted.

 

For pictures, look for my link higher up in the thread, to a thread with pics in which I had it mounted on my wife's rifle before I converted it.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[Rockhound 0]

I use this mount for my Saiga 223. I am happy with it.

How well does that mount hold zero, is it lower profile or does it sit up pretty high, and is it centered over the barrel?

 

 

The mount that I linked to sits low enough over the receiver that you are not able to use the iron sights. It is centered over the barrel. The mount locks securely on the side rail of the Saiga. I take it off the rifle when I store it, plus I will still use the iron sights when shooting objects at close range. It holds zero. My intent is to buy another one in the future and mount a red-dot optic. That way, I can choose to shoot using iron sights, telescopic, or red-dot depending on the situation wihout having to re-zero my optics. I like options.

[EreadM 0]

Do any of ya'll know anything about this mount. I think its called Molot Low Profile.

[jimdigriz 580]

Guys, I found what is (for me) a fatal flaw of the KV-04S mount from K-Var. Mine can only be adjusted to be either too loose, in that a sharp blow of the buttstock on the ground can dislodge it, or too tight, in that it cannot be removed in a hurry. (The latch is stiff). It's a solid mount that would work for someone who did not envision having to remove it in a hurry, but my needs are otherwise. If anybody wants it, they can have it for $37 shipped. I'll probably pick up a BP-02 for myself.

[zero2epiphany 4]

Do any of ya'll know anything about this mount. I think its called Molot Low Profile.

 

 

I have one of these mounts, along with a bp 02. As of yet I have not shot with it but seems to be well constructed. I got mine off kalinka a few weeks back and it seems that the molot people changed the design a bit. There now is what i would refer to as a spacer bar between the upper and lower parts off the mount. This brings the height of the mount slightly higher than the BP 02. In addition the mount is "pinned" for "optimal placement". The mount is constructed to be both elevation and windage adjustable. However, these newer ones sit higher than before and you cant adjust with the pins in.

 

Now, with that said, I took a real good look at it the other night and noticed that it had many more screws and such than where necissary. So attempted to knock the pins out. NO GO! So I ended up drilling them out. As I suspected, that extra bit of "spacer" steel was just that extra. Got rid of that, reassembled the mount and now it is truelly the ultra low mount with windage adjustment that it was ment to be. With the mount on the rifle, but with no optic, you can use iron sights.

 

Final thoughts on the mount is that; JUST WHAT THE HECK was Molot doing pinning and putting that spacer on a mount that is suppose to the lowest mount around.....and adjustable? BUT, you can fix that with about 30 minutes of work. Hope this helps someone.

[EreadM 0]

Do any of ya'll know anything about this mount. I think its called Molot Low Profile.

 

 

I have one of these mounts, along with a bp 02. As of yet I have not shot with it but seems to be well constructed. I got mine off kalinka a few weeks back and it seems that the molot people changed the design a bit. There now is what i would refer to as a spacer bar between the upper and lower parts off the mount. This brings the height of the mount slightly higher than the BP 02. In addition the mount is "pinned" for "optimal placement". The mount is constructed to be both elevation and windage adjustable. However, these newer ones sit higher than before and you cant adjust with the pins in.

 

Now, with that said, I took a real good look at it the other night and noticed that it had many more screws and such than where necissary. So attempted to knock the pins out. NO GO! So I ended up drilling them out. As I suspected, that extra bit of "spacer" steel was just that extra. Got rid of that, reassembled the mount and now it is truelly the ultra low mount with windage adjustment that it was ment to be. With the mount on the rifle, but with no optic, you can use iron sights.

 

Final thoughts on the mount is that; JUST WHAT THE HECK was Molot doing pinning and putting that spacer on a mount that is suppose to the lowest mount around.....and adjustable? BUT, you can fix that with about 30 minutes of work. Hope this helps someone.

Thanks for the info. Got two more questions for you that you can maybe answer for me. Is that mount centered over the barrel or is it offset a bit? And, comparing the Molot mount to the BPO2, if you had to take your pick overral which one would you most likely recommend?

[zero2epiphany 4]

Do any of ya'll know anything about this mount. I think its called Molot Low Profile.

 

 

I have one of these mounts, along with a bp 02. As of yet I have not shot with it but seems to be well constructed. I got mine off kalinka a few weeks back and it seems that the molot people changed the design a bit. There now is what i would refer to as a spacer bar between the upper and lower parts off the mount. This brings the height of the mount slightly higher than the BP 02. In addition the mount is "pinned" for "optimal placement". The mount is constructed to be both elevation and windage adjustable. However, these newer ones sit higher than before and you cant adjust with the pins in.

 

Now, with that said, I took a real good look at it the other night and noticed that it had many more screws and such than where necissary. So attempted to knock the pins out. NO GO! So I ended up drilling them out. As I suspected, that extra bit of "spacer" steel was just that extra. Got rid of that, reassembled the mount and now it is truelly the ultra low mount with windage adjustment that it was ment to be. With the mount on the rifle, but with no optic, you can use iron sights.

 

Final thoughts on the mount is that; JUST WHAT THE HECK was Molot doing pinning and putting that spacer on a mount that is suppose to the lowest mount around.....and adjustable? BUT, you can fix that with about 30 minutes of work. Hope this helps someone.

Thanks for the info. Got two more questions for you that you can maybe answer for me. Is that mount centered over the barrel or is it offset a bit? And, comparing the Molot mount to the BPO2, if you had to take your pick overral which one would you most likely recommend?

 

 

It is centered. As to which mount. Depends. Cost of the bp 02 is ALOT less and had worked well for me. I have a 4x scope on the bp and its fool proof. On the other hand the molot wears a bushnell trophy mp dot sight. Being lower helps as this sight sits tall. So my answer is molot for dot scope, bp 02 for longer zoom scope. But value goes to bp02. hope that helps.

[jimdigriz 580]

Thanks for the info. Got two more questions for you that you can maybe answer for me. Is that mount centered over the barrel or is it offset a bit?

 

Unless the centered mount allows co-witnessing - and I'm only aware of one side mount rail that does - it's actually an advantage IMHO to have the mount offset. Allows immediate and unfettered use of the irons without unmounting, and without giving up any practical accuracy of the red dot. And in my admittedly limited experience, regular mounting and unmounting eventually wears out the grip/locking mechanism, causing looseness of the mount.

[GregM1 241]

I found my BP-02 on gunbroker for 45$ shipped. I never see molots anywhere for less 75 - 100$ (usually on traders and they go fast). The spring on a BP-02 looks like it would be an easy piece to replace. It also has so many adjustment points on the gear, it will take a real long time for the spring to be totally ineffective.

[Lashlarue 1]

Wish I had a better pic, but I have the utg dual side mount, not the quick disconnect model but the one with three allen head screws.Still comes off in about 30 seconds, and so far has held zero the few times I checked.Easy to check as I'm using a laser on the lower, and a reflex red dot on the upper.Redundant, I know, but haven't found a flashlight to my liking[price] lots of $100 ones, which I find a bit much for a flashlight!