How many has your town lost?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I don't think it's accurate to compare unemployment insurance to welfare. I am not sure how unemployment works anywhere besides my state (NJ). But here you must have worked at the job for 18 months or more and the money you collect scales directly with how much you paid into it. It pays for 6 months and then ends, you can apply for an extension of another 6 months after that, and then it's over. It's an insurance policy really.

 

Welfare/WIC/Section 8 is simply a handout. It is also very badly abused. I had people at my old job living ghetto fabulous, in $100 a month gov't housing projects, collecting multiple welfare/WIC/section (sometimes all 3) and working a full time job on top of that. You wouldn't believe the luxury they have on those programs too. One of them felt like moving out of the NYC suburbs here and into the philly suburbs cause they liked the schools there better, all they had to do was fill out some papers and they were gone the next month.....

 

I think Bigsal and 690gr both have some very good ideas.

[TheOtherOne 5]

Anyone who has ever had a product to sell knows that the market is more important than the product, unless you just want thousands of "chairs" or whatever said product for personal use.

 

America's market is valuable enough to motivate a company to bring back jobs.

 

If they don't bring them back, the country has more than enough innovative individuals to take the traitor's places.

 

Our consumer base is the most sought after in the world. It's time to grow a pair & take our country back.

 

The slave master has no empathy for his fellow man. As long as he's able to milk his slave's industrial workmanship at his fullest possible productivity, albeit while disregarding the slave's family & quality of the slave's life, the slave master is happy.

The slave master doesn't care that the slave has lost the ability to defend himself or to remake weaponry when the slave master is just looking to take everything as fast as possible & run with it anyways.

 

But oh will he reap the benefits of his brother's labor.

 

The master needs to keep his subjects always in need of him. He will go to great lengths

to keep this control.

He will do anything to keep the newcomer to the game from succeeding.

The master doesn't care about the quality of anything, he just seeks market share.

 

Well,make the price of market share to be contribution to the market.

Fair price if you ask me.

 

If you love China so much... Go sell your product there.

A company that takes & does not contribute is nothing more than a parasite.

[bigsal 757]

 

 

 

Ummmm, hokay, so if I invest in a mutual fund that owns stock in any company that moves capacity overseas, both the company's officers and I should go to jail, right? Yeah, that's a great idea!

 

Yup. You wanna own part of a company that ships jobs overseas then I am all for you going to jail (and possibly getting butt raped while in jail). Kinda harsh ehh? Wouldn't that make you think twice about owning a company that ships our jobs to China or Mexico?

[crackback 135]

I don't think it's accurate to compare unemployment insurance to welfare. I am not sure how unemployment works anywhere besides my state (NJ). But here you must have worked at the job for 18 months or more and the money you collect scales directly with how much you paid into it. It pays for 6 months and then ends, you can apply for an extension of another 6 months after that, and then it's over. It's an insurance policy really.

 

Welfare/WIC/Section 8 is simply a handout. It is also very badly abused. I had people at my old job living ghetto fabulous, in $100 a month gov't housing projects, collecting multiple welfare/WIC/section (sometimes all 3) and working a full time job on top of that. You wouldn't believe the luxury they have on those programs too. One of them felt like moving out of the NYC suburbs here and into the philly suburbs cause they liked the schools there better, all they had to do was fill out some papers and they were gone the next month.....

 

I think Bigsal and 690gr both have some very good ideas.

 

Good point. My point of view stems from what the regime is doing now with possibly endless unemployment extensions. What do they become then when the former worker is content to no longer work as they are being incentivised not to currently e.g. my mooch neighbor who has been offered 3 jobs but would rather sit on her ass, wake up at 11am and watch her stories? As you describe it, I would agree wholeheartedly that it is more akin to insurance.

 

Welfare programs that are not limited in time or scope serve a corrosive purpose to create permanent underclasses. When I see the plight of my fellow Americans in the inner city I become livid as they have had their dignity stripped away by 80 years of endless do-gooder gov't programs (welfare) that have left them almost wholly dependent on the actual taxpayers' collective labor/ingenuity/entreprenurialism. This leaves them vulnerable to the snake oil salesmen of race hustlers, statist community organizers, and corrupt politicians. These so called "leaders" have no real interest in policies or principals that would get their people out of this crime ridden squalor because then these victims of the socialist lies would no longer need said "leaders".

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr

[Bounce12 407]

 

 

 

Ummmm, hokay, so if I invest in a mutual fund that owns stock in any company that moves capacity overseas, both the company's officers and I should go to jail, right? Yeah, that's a great idea!

 

Yup. You wanna own part of a company that ships jobs overseas then I am all for you going to jail (and possibly getting butt raped while in jail). Kinda harsh ehh? Wouldn't that make you think twice about owning a company that ships our jobs to China or Mexico?

 

 

No, it wouldn't make me think twice about owning a company that ships jobs to China or Mexico. It'd make me think twice about staying here though. I'd fucking leave. Of course, to prevent the people from leaving, you'd construct a wall to keep them in. Sound familiar? Your way has been tried. President Reagan defeated your kind with free market capitalism and lowered tax rates. Too bad you didn't learn the lessons.

[crackback 135]

I just worked the numbers of one facet of my plan to keep companies here. I used 2008 GE data with the assumption of 300,000 non-management workers (based off Wikipedia number of 323,000 total in 2008). At just 7.5% profit sharing each non-executive or management employee would have gotten about $4477.50 additional that year. GE is not the leanest or best % profit margin company either.

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr

[Bounce12 407]

I just worked the numbers of one facet of my plan to keep companies here. I used 2008 GE data with the assumption of 300,000 non-management workers (based off Wikipedia number of 323,000 total in 2008). At just 7.5% profit sharing each non-executive or management employee would have gotten about $4477.50 additional that year. GE is not the leanest or best % profit margin company either.

 

 

 

GE is owned by people who INVESTED IN IT. That money belongs to them, not the employees. If you want a piece of the action, buy a piece of the company - put some skin in the game... or, didn't that occur to you?

[Paulyski 2,227]

................ to prevent the people from leaving, you'd construct a wall to keep them in. Sound familiar? Your way has been tried. President Reagan defeated your kind with free market capitalism and lowered tax rates. Too bad you didn't learn the lessons.

Come on!

 

At least give credit where credit's due!

Okay, Reagan weakened the Soviets, but Polish UNION MEMBERS that went to prison for their ideals actually delivered the death blow by risking it all & striking, thus bringing the whole works to a halt.

 

Look into it.

 

The CIA didn't know about the fall of the Soviets until they heard the bricks hitting the ground!

 

Poland's Solidarity Movement was the Catalyst for the Fall of the Soviet Union

 

Working 20 years to able to buy a car, rationing food, people trading their food coupons for cigarettes and alcohol leaving their family to starve for the month. Does this sound like a country you would want to live in?

 

Nobody could describe it better then my own mother, who was allowed a visa to visit her aunt in West Berlin in 1973, She described it like this: "You would get out of the train in East Berlin. There was no color, everything was dilapidated concrete. People with guns and dogs herding you around as you go through customs. They search you almost violently and question you and then you get to the other side and there is beautiful new train tracks, color everywhere, no dogs, no policeman, advertisements, and well dressed people smiling and going about their business. The contrast was unbelievable"

 

Many people, which had relatives in western countries, would witness these contrasting realities and wish that Poland could be the same way.

 

I would like to inform you about the solidarity movement, what it is, a short timeline of events, which led to its creation and continued success and its effects on Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.

 

Independent self-governing trade union solidarity, or Solidarity for short was the first non-communist run trade union in the eastern bloc. According to the BBC: "It was the first independent mass

 

 

political movement to emerge in the Soviet bloc" its leaders promoted non-violent means to pursue their goals of an economically and socially viable Poland. Solidarity was organized into 38 regions with delegates representing each region sitting in a legislative body where all the decisions were made concerning the union; there was also an executive branch much like we have here in the United States. More importantly was the fact that the solidarity movement had representation from the 17 most powerful factories, shipyards and mines in Poland, and if they were to ask any of them to go on strike they would. Although it would appear that solidarity was a labor union much like there are in the United States, it stood for more than workers rights, it stood for citizens rights to freedom, free speech, to be able to buy as much food as your family needed.

 

As I described in my introduction, conditions in Poland were not good in the mid to late seventies, people were becoming aware of the prosperity outside Poland and frustrated that there could be little to no wealth creation within Poland's borders. The people of Poland did not have anything or anybody to rally around to call for change, their neighbors were spying on them in government mandated programs, everything was censored by the government and revolts in the early seventies only led to bloodshed.

 

Then, in October of 1978 a miracle happened, a little known bishop from Krakow, Poland was elected Pope and the people of Poland rejoiced in the streets. Their time had come. A year later according to George Weigal in his book: A witness to hope: "On June 2, 1979, 3 million Poles, twice the cities normal population came to see the pope speak in Warsaw" His sermon centered on polish history, its inherent opposition to any oppressor and the right of every man woman and child to be able to choose their own way of life and ideology. At one point he exclaimed, "Do not be afraid".

 

The future founder of solidarity and later to become the first president of Poland Lech Walesa was in the crowd. He later explained in an interview with BBC News: "The Holy Father, through his meetings, demonstrated how numerous we were. He told us not to be afraid". One year later the shipyards, mines and factories of Poland were united under the flag of solidarity and rose to the challenge, they would systematically go on strike until changes in working conditions and society would come into effect. On the 31st of August 1980, the communist authorities conceded the strikers main demand: their own trade union, independent of communist control. Soon Solidarity was claiming 10 million members.

 

Sadly the communist regime in Poland installed martial law in an attempt to destroy Solidarities iron fist on Poland's industry over a period of time from December 13th, 1981 to July 22nd, 1983. Solidarity was forced underground and its leaders were imprisoned for no other reason than being the leaders of the movement.

 

Oddly enough, my mother was on a pilgrimage to Rome when martial law was installed in Poland. Throngs of people marched in the streets leading to the Polish Embassy changing "Poland has asked for its freedom, long live solidarity"

 

Although the censorship in the eastern bloc was incredible, news from the west leaked through to the soviet satellite countries that there was a successful movement in Poland against the communist regime and hat victories could be won with the use of nonviolent protests and the refusal to work. Finally, in the summer of 1989 after 8 years of underground resistance and moral revolution, the solidarity movement forced a free election in Poland's parliamentary elections, and to its own surprise won all but one of the seats in parliament and elected a Solidarity supporting prime minister on August 25th, 1989. This started a chain reaction that would be seen throughout Europe.

 

As you all know the Berlin wall came crashing down on November 9th 1989 and signaled the end of the Soviet Union to the entire world. The eastern bloc nations were united in their solidarity against the great oppressor, communism.

 

Stalin once said that establishing communism in Poland was like trying to saddle a cow, boy was he right.

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2314909/solidaritys_role_in_the_fall_of_the.html?cat=37

 

Unions & communism are not synonyms.

It's the robber barons that want you to believe that.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Paulyski

[crackback 135]

I just worked the numbers of one facet of my plan to keep companies here. I used 2008 GE data with the assumption of 300,000 non-management workers (based off Wikipedia number of 323,000 total in 2008). At just 7.5% profit sharing each non-executive or management employee would have gotten about $4477.50 additional that year. GE is not the leanest or best % profit margin company either.

 

 

 

GE is owned by people who INVESTED IN IT. That money belongs to them, not the employees. If you want a piece of the action, buy a piece of the company - put some skin in the game... or, didn't that occur to you?

 

Bounce, seriously come on. Did you read and digest my earlier posts? I am a Randian capitalist, as in Ayn Rand of Atlas Shrugged fame. I have been both a blue collar employee and a shareholder. I proposed a 50% reduction in the federal corporate tax rate as it is the second highest in the world and it is unjust in terms of double taxation regarding shareholders. To make it both politically palatable to our diametrically opposed parties and more fair the workers would receive 25% of the cut or put differently 7.5% of net profits (not gross receipts). This would provide for better employees as they tangibly receive benefit through increased productivity and aligned incentives

 

Same team man..... same team.

 

We are in a crisis of companies leaving because of gov't ineptitude and short sighted policies. We have to do something realistic and beneficial for all to get America rolling. Also, the workers could use this 7.5% to buy shares in the company tax free, then they would be INVESTORS and OWN IT and be entitled to their PIECE of the ACTION.

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr

[Bounce12 407]

Come on!

 

At least give credit where credit's due!

Okay, Reagan weakened the Soviets, but Polish UNION MEMBERS that went to prison for their ideals actually delivered the death blow by risking it all & striking, thus bringing the whole works to a halt.

 

 

This is truly hilarious. You think people going to jail did more to bring down the Soviet Union than Reagan's military buildup and the threat of nullifying their missiles with SDI?

 

You're truly clueless if you believe that bilge. It's laughably absurd.

 

You see, I was on nuclear alert during the Cold War. I was there. I saw what happened. If putting people in jail would bring the commies down, they'd have imploded 100 years ago!

 

When Reagan lowered taxes, unleashed the power of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM (which created 20 MILLION new jobs) and rebuilt our military making it second to none in the world, the Soviets couldn't keep up. They couldn't match our buildup. They couldn't even manage to control the countries they had already invaded.

 

If you want to believe that people in jail did more to bring the soviets down than that, then by all means, feel free to dream on.

[Bounce12 407]

I just worked the numbers of one facet of my plan to keep companies here. I used 2008 GE data with the assumption of 300,000 non-management workers (based off Wikipedia number of 323,000 total in 2008). At just 7.5% profit sharing each non-executive or management employee would have gotten about $4477.50 additional that year. GE is not the leanest or best % profit margin company either.

 

 

 

GE is owned by people who INVESTED IN IT. That money belongs to them, not the employees. If you want a piece of the action, buy a piece of the company - put some skin in the game... or, didn't that occur to you?

 

Bounce, seriously come on. Did you read and digest my earlier posts? I am a Randian capitalist, as in Ayn Rand of Atlas Shrugged fame. I have been both a blue collar employee and a shareholder. I proposed a 50% reduction in the federal corporate tax rate as it is the second highest in the world and it is unjust in terms of double taxation regarding shareholders. To make it both politically palatable to our diametrically opposed parties and more fair the workers would receive 25% of the cut or put differently 7.5% of net profits (not gross receipts). This would provide for better employees as they tangibly receive benefit through increased productivity and aligned incentives

 

Same team man..... same team.

 

We are in a crisis of companies leaving because of gov't ineptitude and short sighted policies. We have to do something realistic and beneficial for all to get America rolling. Also, the workers could use this 7.5% to buy shares in the company tax free, then they would be INVESTORS and OWN IT and be entitled to their PIECE of the ACTION.

 

 

OK, I'm sorry. I misread your intent. Sorry. My bad.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I don't think it's accurate to compare unemployment insurance to welfare. I am not sure how unemployment works anywhere besides my state (NJ). But here you must have worked at the job for 18 months or more and the money you collect scales directly with how much you paid into it. It pays for 6 months and then ends, you can apply for an extension of another 6 months after that, and then it's over. It's an insurance policy really.

 

Welfare/WIC/Section 8 is simply a handout. It is also very badly abused. I had people at my old job living ghetto fabulous, in $100 a month gov't housing projects, collecting multiple welfare/WIC/section (sometimes all 3) and working a full time job on top of that. You wouldn't believe the luxury they have on those programs too. One of them felt like moving out of the NYC suburbs here and into the philly suburbs cause they liked the schools there better, all they had to do was fill out some papers and they were gone the next month.....

 

I think Bigsal and 690gr both have some very good ideas.

 

Good point. My point of view stems from what the regime is doing now with possibly endless unemployment extensions. What do they become then when the former worker is content to no longer work as they are being incentivised not to currently e.g. my mooch neighbor who has been offered 3 jobs but would rather sit on her ass, wake up at 11am and watch her stories? As you describe it, I would agree wholeheartedly that it is more akin to insurance.

 

Welfare programs that are not limited in time or scope serve a corrosive purpose to create permanent underclasses. When I see the plight of my fellow Americans in the inner city I become livid as they have had their dignity stripped away by 80 years of endless do-gooder gov't programs (welfare) that have left them almost wholly dependent on the actual taxpayers' collective labor/ingenuity/entreprenurialism. This leaves them vulnerable to the snake oil salesmen of race hustlers, statist community organizers, and corrupt politicians. These so called "leaders" have no real interest in policies or principals that would get their people out of this crime ridden squalor because then these victims of the socialist lies would no longer need said "leaders".

 

Very well said.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Come on!

 

At least give credit where credit's due!

Okay, Reagan weakened the Soviets, but Polish UNION MEMBERS that went to prison for their ideals actually delivered the death blow by risking it all & striking, thus bringing the whole works to a halt.

 

 

This is truly hilarious. You think people going to jail did more to bring down the Soviet Union than Reagan's military buildup and the threat of nullifying their missiles with SDI?

 

You're truly clueless if you believe that bilge. It's laughably absurd.

 

You see, I was on nuclear alert during the Cold War. I was there. I saw what happened. If putting people in jail would bring the commies down, they'd have imploded 100 years ago!

 

When Reagan lowered taxes, unleashed the power of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM (which created 20 MILLION new jobs) and rebuilt our military making it second to none in the world, the Soviets couldn't keep up. They couldn't match our buildup. They couldn't even manage to control the countries they had already invaded.

 

If you want to believe that people in jail did more to bring the soviets down than that, then by all means, feel free to dream on.

As I said, Reagan weakened the soviets, Solidarity delivered the death blow.

Solidarity were unions. Conduct further research.

All their members apparently weren't all in jail.

No disrespect, but your argument is invalid.

Sorry.

 

ETA

We both had enough nukes to blow up the whole world 5 times over... Each.

The idea of a space based SDI, (that we still haven't made work 20 years later) didn't just make them throw up their hands in surrender.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Paulyski

[blackrifle71 0]

I think i am going to start a company

 

this company will make and package bullets

 

this is a good idea

 

economic woes solved

 

ill call it pirate ammo inc

 

off one set of dies i could get rich...rich i tell you!

 

cool ass black boxes with skull and bones on top

 

sell like hot cakes on gunbroker

 

get all fat and drive caddy, smoke cigars

 

teach hot bikini clad girls how to run reloader

 

yea man...feeling better bout the economy already!

[crackback 135]

I think i am going to start a company

 

this company will make and package bullets

 

this is a good idea

 

economic woes solved

 

ill call it pirate ammo inc

 

off one set of dies i could get rich...rich i tell you!

 

cool ass black boxes with skull and bones on top

 

sell like hot cakes on gunbroker

 

get all fat and drive caddy, smoke cigars

 

teach hot bikini clad girls how to run reloader

 

yea man...feeling better bout the economy already!

 

I like the soliloquy format. But according to The Millionaire Nextdoor by Thomas Stanley you would be more likely to achieve $1 Milion in wealth driving an F-150 till the wheels literally fall off.

[blackrifle71 0]

well the logic behind the idea was the fact that the market for ammo is increasing

while everything else...not so much

but i guess that would make me a war profiteer

strangely as i get older that idea doesent bother me like it should...

[Paulyski 2,227]

well the logic behind the idea was the fact that the market for ammo is increasing

while everything else...not so much

but i guess that would make me a war profiteer

strangely as i get older that idea doesent bother me like it should...

Have fun withITAR.

[blackrifle71 0]

well that dream just ended...

 

you know that reminds me of this quote

 

"If a little church in the country has to apply for a permit to replace some wood on its steeple, the citizens of that country are already slaves..."

 

That quote is from the devil himself...albert pike

[BronCobraJet 80]

You lambast people for blindly support a government that doesn't give a shit about them to take care of them, yet you think blindly supporting corporations who don't don't give a shit about people to take care of them makes sense.

 

"Debating" with you is truly pointless...I'm done....Everything with you is just extremes....And insults....

 

++1

[BronCobraJet 80]

You lambast people for blindly support a government that doesn't give a shit about them to take care of them, yet you think blindly supporting corporations who don't don't give a shit about people to take care of them makes sense.

 

 

It's NOT government's job to "take care" of the people or business. It's not business' job to "take care" of the workers.

 

Once you shake off this incessent need for a fucking nipple to suck on and man-up enough to take full reponsibility for yourself and your family, things might become clear for you. Until then, you'll just be another whiney bastard who points fingers, blames the rich for his problems, and votes for the politician who will keep that gravy train rolling.

 

You can HAVE that life. I want to part of it.

TYou want to know how the 40 hour work week came about? Blame a union. The railroad used to work 16 hour days. They orginized and soon 12 hour days were implemented. You office workers and every one else get to celebrate 8 hour days and 40 hour work weeks, thank the people that brought it to you, the railroad workers, still working a 12 hour day, are away from home for 36 plus hours and then have a 12 hour day back home again. it usaually works out to 8-12 hours to destination, 8 to 20 hours in a fucking hotel, sometimes much more, then 8-12 hours home. Sometimes many many hours more. The longest I've been going 250 miles took me 18 plus hours. Bounce12, don't give me any shit about what a union could do. In all respect, fuck you. Large corporations would still be paying pennies if it weren't for the unions. In the old days they worked them 16 hours a day and rolled in a new body when the old person died off. I don't get any of the benefits that the older railroaders do from a few years ago, because I'm a "new Hire" after 1985. I make almost half the money those guys did. Plus, as soon as I hired out, I lost all Social Security benifits. The older railroaders still get that. Yeah, I could quit and move somewhere else. For what? Where? I get paid for my time. I'm good at what I do. I don't have absenteeism. I work hard for my money. I'm union. Large companies would fuck the small people as hard as they could if it weren't for unions. Look it up in the history books. Government regulation is the killer. I bet I put in more hours in a week or two than you put in a month. Your anti-union talk is empty. Someone has to look out for the little people. By the way, I don't think that anyone OWES me anything, and I would bet 90% of the people here feel the same. or more. Some people appreciate their jobs and work hard at it. Maybe you hang around to many asshats that don't care. Some people take pride in their work. If you encounter people that don't want to do the work, get rid of them. Even the unions here won't support them to a point - and they are gone.

Edited April 19, 2010 by BronCobraJet

[BronCobraJet 80]

In WWII the only reason the US was able to assist to the point where we won was that we were able to convert our ENTIRE manufacturing base to working for the war effort. Families were saving bacon grease to send in to the munitions factories for the glycerin, The auto industry was making tanks & planes, the whole country was in tune...

 

Now our largest direct military threat to our country is from China.

A country with the ability to rule by decree. A country that can nationalize ANY business in their territory with a flick of a pen.

What's more?

We are borrowing $$ from them at a ridiculous rate & to ease the repayment, we're devaluing our own currency. China sees this & their getting pissed. It is ludicrous to think that China won't nationalize our factories the moment we cease to become profitable to them, or we enter into some insurmountable geopolitical / military conflict.

 

Clinton signed us into the WTO.

The Bush administration stood & did nothing as they all left. One could say they even encouraged it.

 

BOTH are guilty of nothing less than TREASON as far as I'm concerned.

 

There is a time & place for protectionism. This is that time & place.

But the elite continue to sell out their countrymen in the name of greed.

They should be treated accordingly come the proper time.

 

The Patriot Act eroded our rights immeasurably.

Obama is running with it & taking even more control in other areas of our lives.

 

Regardless of who in the 2 parties you vote for you screwed yourself & future generations.

Anyone who fails to see that one is always building off of the other is a blind fool.

 

But that's what they're counting on......

So argue between who voted for the right person. That's what they're counting on.

We're seriously fucked guys. Whatever way one looks at it.

I honestly believe we're beyond the point of no return.

++2

[BronCobraJet 80]

Cameron Hadley - You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might.

 

Former assembly line worker (impact wrench), cement laborer, steel fabricator, and Democrat.

 

Machinist, cnc machinist, maintenance mechanic since 1990. Never worked for a union, independent. I don't buy the whole move to a service based economy. A nation's health is directly measured by it's manufacturing sector, most importantly it's durable goods. A society of insurance salesmen and burger flippers will not provide a good standard of living.

 

As a true libertarian Goldwaterite/Reaganite mix and Randian capitalist I agree with you 90 -95% of the way. Where I disagree is on a techinical point regarding the weighted metrics used to judge a nations health and how heavily manufacturing would be weighted on the whole as there are many subcategories e.g heavy (Boeing, General Dynamics(M1AI Abrams?), Newport News (Nuclear Subs) and light defense indistries (ATK) (all highly Vital!!), heavy industry (Caterpillar) , Shipbuilding, Farm industry (John Deer, Int Harv), construction industry (cranes, dock equiment), consumer vehicles (Doing OK with Ford, Govt motors and Chrysler will likely fail again), heavy aircraft, consumer aircraft, consumer appliances - low tech (GONE TO CHINA), high tech manufacturing (75% GONE TO JAPAN then TAIWAN then CHINA), raw materials processing (virgin steel i.e Bethlehem, LTV (GONE TO INDIA AND RUSSIA and other places that dont have a manufacturing business destroying EPA), Alcoa (Doing great!) etc..) , secondary processing (scrap mills mostly overseas), Specialty processing -(Worthington Steel (doing great!) ), etc...

My nephew graduated 2 years ago, and I remember telling him that you can't have a service economy, you have to have manufacturing. They must be teaching them in school that service is where it's at.

[Bounce12 407]

You lambast people for blindly support a government that doesn't give a shit about them to take care of them, yet you think blindly supporting corporations who don't don't give a shit about people to take care of them makes sense.

 

 

It's NOT government's job to "take care" of the people or business. It's not business' job to "take care" of the workers.

 

Once you shake off this incessent need for a fucking nipple to suck on and man-up enough to take full reponsibility for yourself and your family, things might become clear for you. Until then, you'll just be another whiney bastard who points fingers, blames the rich for his problems, and votes for the politician who will keep that gravy train rolling.

 

You can HAVE that life. I want to part of it.

TYou want to know how the 40 hour work week came about? Blame a union.

 

 

Hey, you're behind. I heard in France they only have a 35 hour work week.

 

Let me ask you this... who writes your paycheck at the end of the week? The union? Oops, nope! You write the union a check and then they write the politicians a check. Then, the politicians pass laws that restrict the companies to the point that the entire state of Michigan is dying.

Hey, that's quite a system you have there. What a great deal for the worker. Oh well, at least they have their union card.

 

 

 

The railroad used to work 16 hour days. They orginized and soon 12 hour days were implemented. You office workers and every one else get to celebrate 8 hour days and 40 hour work weeks, thank the people that brought it to you, the railroad workers, still working a 12 hour day, are away from home for 36 plus hours and then have a 12 hour day back home again. it usaually works out to 8-12 hours to destination, 8 to 20 hours in a fucking hotel, sometimes much more, then 8-12 hours home. Sometimes many many hours more. The longest I've been going 250 miles took me 18 plus hours. Bounce12, don't give me any shit about what a union could do. In all respect, fuck you.

 

With all due respect Bron, I was an airline pilot. Don't try to compare time away from home with me. You don't know the half of it. If you don't fucking like it, then do what I did and create a new life for yourself. This incessant whining and nipple-sucking out of what is supposed to be a grown man is unbecoming. That's what a fucking union will do for you I guess. Working "hard" doesn't count for shit. The question is, "How productive can you be?"

 

 

Government regulation is the killer.

 

Yeah, and who supports government regulation? Hmmmmm??? Connect some dots.

 

 

I bet I put in more hours in a week or two than you put in a month.

 

Oh, I guarantee you that you do. AND, I'm happy for you. I retired six years ago at age 47. Now, I spend my time shooting my guns, playing my video games, spending time with my kids, flying my airplane and riding by bicycle. You'll work until the day you burn out or die, I guarantee it. If you're hanging on for that big company DB retirement package that's probably defined in your contract, do some research and look at what happened to the Delta pilots when the company went bankrupt. The DB plan went away and guys that had worked their adult lives away counting on that big contract were left empty-handed. So much for the union. One former pilot I know is stocking shelves at Home Depot and another is driving a van from the hotel to the airport and back for tips (he generally gets a buck a head).

 

 

Your anti-union talk is empty. Someone has to look out for the little people. By the way, I don't think that anyone OWES me anything, and I would bet 90% of the people here feel the same.

 

Sure you do. You're owed something you can't command on your own. That's why you feel the need to suckle up to a union. They take your money, tell you how to think, tell you how to vote and tell you how lucky you are to have them.

 

And, you can tell me to fuck off all you want. I don't even take offense to it. You are limiting and fucking YOURSELF more than you know. Your ideas and your words do not affect me at all. I broke free of the ideas the union tried to get me to accept. I learned the nature of productivity, put it to work, and was able to shake off the ideas of renting the best years of my life away by the hour and paying the union to do my talking for me. While people like you watch the sand drop through the hour glass marking time spent at work, people like me are productive. The difference is night and day.

 

You brought up a good point - "who works the most hours"... As I sit here thinking about it, I find myself wondering when the last time was that I actually worked. Honestly, I can't remember, but it's been several years - at least. Have fun at work today.

 

Maybe at some point you will question your ideas of "hours at work" and learn to look at life as a matter of productivity. I have learned to be very productive without working and without a union to do my thinking for me. Argue for your situation all you want. At the end of your life you'll be able to look back and pride yourself on all the hours you put in, all the union dues you paid and all the thinking you didn't have to do.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Bounce12

[Bounce12 407]

And another thing Bron, I fucking dare you to spend a whole minute seriously pondering this...

 

Imagine what it must be like to man the fuck up enough to start something where you actually WRITE pay checks. Can you imagine? No, seriously, I know you can't.

 

Imagine a situation where, after you satisfy customers, replentish your inventory, pay your taxes, pay the bills and pay the employees, you THEN get to see if there is anything left for yourself. Imagine that you used your life savings to get that business started and idiots like 0bama want to RAISE your taxes even higher. After all, you're a rich business owner and it's not fair to the rest of society that you have more than anyone else.

 

I am willing to bet that you don't have the stones to seriously consider doing something like that to say nothing of actually doing it.

 

If you want to impress me with your knowledge of how life is, start a business that creates jobs and writes paychecks. I'll bet big money that you can't do it.

[crackback 135]

Cameron Hadley - You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might.

 

Former assembly line worker (impact wrench), cement laborer, steel fabricator, and Democrat.

 

Machinist, cnc machinist, maintenance mechanic since 1990. Never worked for a union, independent. I don't buy the whole move to a service based economy. A nation's health is directly measured by it's manufacturing sector, most importantly it's durable goods. A society of insurance salesmen and burger flippers will not provide a good standard of living.

 

As a true libertarian Goldwaterite/Reaganite mix and Randian capitalist I agree with you 90 -95% of the way. Where I disagree is on a techinical point regarding the weighted metrics used to judge a nations health and how heavily manufacturing would be weighted on the whole as there are many subcategories e.g heavy (Boeing, General Dynamics(M1AI Abrams?), Newport News (Nuclear Subs) and light defense indistries (ATK) (all highly Vital!!), heavy industry (Caterpillar) , Shipbuilding, Farm industry (John Deer, Int Harv), construction industry (cranes, dock equiment), consumer vehicles (Doing OK with Ford, Govt motors and Chrysler will likely fail again), heavy aircraft, consumer aircraft, consumer appliances - low tech (GONE TO CHINA), high tech manufacturing (75% GONE TO JAPAN then TAIWAN then CHINA), raw materials processing (virgin steel i.e Bethlehem, LTV (GONE TO INDIA AND RUSSIA and other places that dont have a manufacturing business destroying EPA), Alcoa (Doing great!) etc..) , secondary processing (scrap mills mostly overseas), Specialty processing -(Worthington Steel (doing great!) ), etc...

My nephew graduated 2 years ago, and I remember telling him that you can't have a service economy, you have to have manufacturing. They must be teaching them in school that service is where it's at.

 

In a word, yes, that is what they teach. College is a major gov't subsidized service industry of its own now. One of the great lies of the last 25 years is that you must have a college degree to be successful. Now I firmly believe that education can open doors. However, they misrepresent the importance of the service industry in large part, because the average person has no use for a college degree if they work hard with their hands in manufacturing or other non service industry. I wonder if its a calculated move in part to enrich their allies on the left (college educators) while saddling us and our children with debt.

[Bounce12 407]

Cameron Hadley - You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might.

 

Former assembly line worker (impact wrench), cement laborer, steel fabricator, and Democrat.

 

Machinist, cnc machinist, maintenance mechanic since 1990. Never worked for a union, independent. I don't buy the whole move to a service based economy. A nation's health is directly measured by it's manufacturing sector, most importantly it's durable goods. A society of insurance salesmen and burger flippers will not provide a good standard of living.

 

As a true libertarian Goldwaterite/Reaganite mix and Randian capitalist I agree with you 90 -95% of the way. Where I disagree is on a techinical point regarding the weighted metrics used to judge a nations health and how heavily manufacturing would be weighted on the whole as there are many subcategories e.g heavy (Boeing, General Dynamics(M1AI Abrams?), Newport News (Nuclear Subs) and light defense indistries (ATK) (all highly Vital!!), heavy industry (Caterpillar) , Shipbuilding, Farm industry (John Deer, Int Harv), construction industry (cranes, dock equiment), consumer vehicles (Doing OK with Ford, Govt motors and Chrysler will likely fail again), heavy aircraft, consumer aircraft, consumer appliances - low tech (GONE TO CHINA), high tech manufacturing (75% GONE TO JAPAN then TAIWAN then CHINA), raw materials processing (virgin steel i.e Bethlehem, LTV (GONE TO INDIA AND RUSSIA and other places that dont have a manufacturing business destroying EPA), Alcoa (Doing great!) etc..) , secondary processing (scrap mills mostly overseas), Specialty processing -(Worthington Steel (doing great!) ), etc...

My nephew graduated 2 years ago, and I remember telling him that you can't have a service economy, you have to have manufacturing. They must be teaching them in school that service is where it's at.

 

In a word, yes, that is what they teach. College is a major gov't subsidized service industry of its own now. One of the great lies of the last 25 years is that you must have a college degree to be successful. Now I firmly believe that education can open doors. However, they misrepresent the importance of the service industry in large part, because the average person has no use for a college degree if they work hard with their hands in manufacturing or other non service industry. I wonder if its a calculated move in part to enrich their allies on the left (college educators) while saddling us and our children with debt.

 

 

 

690gr, I really do need to apologize. I had you all wrong. I am in complete agreement with you. This really is Ayn Rand playing out in real time.

[Bounce12 407]

Wouldn't it be amazing, rather to sit around talking about how many jobs were LOST in our towns, to be bragging and comparing how many jobs we had each PERSONALLY CREATED?

 

There are a few people here who understand what it takes. However, most have no clue.

[ktcm7271 999]

Good point about college, 690. My brother has a degree in industrial automation and robotics. I have years of machinist/cnc/welding/mechanic experience and a slew of trade school ceu's. Guess who makes more? That would be me. I'm still in the trade, he delivers pizza now. Hey Bounce, is it true that pilots are some of the lowest paid workers out there? Capitalism: a love story did a piece on them and they make like $29,000/year.

[rogertc1 4]

Close to where OP is. Quad Cities. Since the 70's CAT, CASE gone. John Deere has its headquarters here but Case had it in Racine WI. Just in the last few months a foundry that has been in west Davenport for 100 years is shut. Also a rubber boot manufacturer that has been in Rock Island 100 years shut and moved totaly to China. Afraid it is not going to end. We still have Alcoa in Bettendort and the Rock Island Arsenal for now.

 

I, along with many of you no doubt have been witnessing the dismantle of our once industrial might! I've watched most of jobs go to either Mexico, China or somewhere else. How will our once great nation defend herself against opposing nations that still have their industrial machine intact? The truth is, this is the single largest threat to our nation security not to mention the livelihood of our countrymen. How could this be allowed and how much more will be strip away before the people act! This is and act of war against the American people from within, this is treason perpetrated by our elected officials. I have watched my trade be striped and shipped overseas. We have lost most of the small industrial businesses in our area and now the larger ones are following as well. Whirlpool moving to Mexico, Alcoa gone in two years, China, GE Plastics, in four years, to the Saudi's. I am among a hand full of shop here that still have machines to manufacture metal parts. How many of you have lost your jobs, or business, tell your story, give names of companies that have been murdered, these were people's dreams, the American dream stolen away. This is nothing short of a massacre, genocide, holocaust, of the American way of life.

[crackback 135]

Wouldn't it be amazing, rather to sit around talking about how many jobs were LOST in our towns, to be bragging and comparing how many jobs we had each PERSONALLY CREATED?

 

There are a few people here who understand what it takes. However, most have no clue.

 

 

This may be off the mark a tad, but I insist on American workers to do any work for me. Yeah, it may cost a few dollars more but I know that money is 1.) staying in the US/my state/my community 2.) Not encouraging the further violation of our immigration laws by acting as a magnet. In the last 4 years I've had Flooring, Landscaping, perimeter fence install, and carpeting work done. Now if only all Americans did this. Actually there should be a campaign to emphasize that 100% American citizen workers made something, maybe a sticker or tag on a product.... For example ,if Chaos made an identical magazine as one of the larger manufacturers but if Chaos could document and guarantee that 100% of manufacturing labor was performed by American citizens and it had a rollmark or other discreet marking to indicate this, I would be willing to pay more for a Chaos mag. Made in the USA is nice, but made in the USA with 100% citizen labor is even better.

 

(Cameron, I know you use 100% American ingenuity and labor I was just using you as an example)

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr