Ultimak + What Handguard??

[bigdough666 1]

I have a converted Saiga that I am wanting to put some stuff on. I want to do a red dot and it seems that the Ultimak + Primary Arms micro red dot is the way to go for a cheap, reliable setup. I like that I can co-witness the iron sights. I also want to a foward grip of some sort, this will require a picatinny rail on the bottom of the handguard. I will have to go aftermarket and swap out the stock handguard. So anyone here have an Ultimak setup with a railed handguard?? What works?? I was originally going to just go with a quad rail to mount both the optic and the foward grip but Id like to co-witness the irons. So any pics/info will be appreciated. Thanks guys.

[MN.9130 44]

If it must be railed, I'd go with the TAPCO Intrafuse handguard for regular AKs. You'll need a bolt on lower handguard retainer, available from CSS or Dinzag (CSS's is cheaper but looks rougher and might require you to notch your barrel, Dinzag's looks awesome and no notching required.)

 

For what it's worth, I just got my Ultimak and Primary Arms Gen 8 (Wanted the killflash!) and I LOVE IT! Outstanding upgrade! I modified a TAPCO Saiga Intrafuse (Full length no mods required) and it required MAJOR fitting... and I did a crappy job. (FWIW!)

[TEPPICHFRESSER 15]

The Ultimak railed gas tube will work with almost any standard AK lower hand guard, some may require a dremel tool for fitting. If you want to go really expensive you can always get the lower tri rail system Ultimak makes.

I also recommend you look into the Vortex SPARC red dot, It is a vary reliable little optic for a good price

 

A few Pics -not my rifles

[calvin118 2]

I don't like any of the short AK quad rails because there is not enough room for me to mount a light and still grip the gun. If you want bottom rails, you have several options:

 

You can buy a Tapco Intrafuse handguard and modify it with a dremel to fit with the Ultimak.

 

You can cut down your factory handguard to fit under the Ultimak and bolt on a rail strip.

 

You can use an AK 100 series KVAR handguard and bolt a rail strip to the bottom.

 

You can use the Ultimak lower rail.

 

I have blown a lot of money trying different things out, and I am sticking to the Ultimak upper rail with the KVAR handguard and no VFG.

Edited December 1, 2010 by calvin118

[TEPPICHFRESSER 15]

You'll need a bolt on lower handguard retainer, available from CSS or Dinzag (CSS's is cheaper but looks rougher and might require you to notch your barrel, Dinzag's looks awesome and no notching required.)

(FWIW!)

 

I have the CSS handguard retainer and it is vary solid, you do have to file a notch in the barrel, but its about the easiest thing you will do in the whole conversion

[BrutalGardener 205]

I have a converted Saiga that I am wanting to put some stuff on. I want to do a red dot and it seems that the Ultimak + Primary Arms micro red dot is the way to go for a cheap, reliable setup.

 

As far as reliability, let's get this clear, Primary Arms is a great company and their micro-dots are awesome for the price, and that's what I run for now, but even the guy who runs Primary Arms will tell you that they are not meant to be a substitute for an Aimpoint T1 on a rifle that you might take into battle. None of these $200- Chinese micro-dots (Primary Arms, Vortex, Sig, etc) will ever be as reliable as an Aimpoint. Just keep that in mind.

[bigdough666 1]

LOL I know that but I don't plan to into combat any time soon. I just don't like the idea of having an optic on a gun that's worth 2x more than the gun itself.

[bigdough666 1]

What about this tri-rail?? Would it work with the Ultimak setup??

 

http://www.gilbertsguns.com/Rifles/Saiga/Saiga+Rifle+Tri+Rail+Forearm

[evi1joe 1]

That SGM tri-rail will need to be dremeled down a bit--and it's a messy job b/c the dremel melts it a bit (and hard to go in a straight line--for me anyway, but I was using a grinding stone NOT a cutting tool). I'm leaning towards bolting a side rail to the KVAR or getting the CAA47--which I hear DOESN'T NEED MODIFICATION (can someone confirm/deny this?) and adding a makeshift heat-shield (tin-foil? aluminum? kevlar?) OR spending $99 and buying the new one at Kalinka that looks like the CAA47 but comes with a heat-shield (see link). http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/firearm-accessories/ak-vepr-saiga-slr/ak-vs-and-saiga-forend.html

 

I'd gladly spend $60-100 for a light but sturdy polymer rail with a head shield and static or removable rails on the sides and bottom. Until then, my KVAR/arsenal rail will do. There are also the railed pieces you can mount between the gas block and the handguard--including that new one coming soon (see link). http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=56&t=132234

[TEPPICHFRESSER 15]

That SGM tri-rail will need to be dremeled down a bit--and it's a messy job b/c the dremel melts it a bit (and hard to go in a straight line--for me anyway, but I was using a grinding stone NOT a cutting tool). I'm leaning towards bolting a side rail to the KVAR or getting the CAA47--which I hear DOESN'T NEED MODIFICATION (can someone confirm/deny this?) and adding a makeshift heat-shield (tin-foil? aluminum? kevlar?) OR spending $99 and buying the new one at Kalinka that looks like the CAA47 but comes with a heat-shield

 

I don't know if the Ultimak will fit the Kalika or the CAA lhv 47 with out modification. But I do know the Hand guard Kalika stocks is made in Russia by STK, and the CAA is a rip off of the STK and is made in Israel, both hand guards would be a good choice, as both are intended for use by military.

 

As for the SGM with Ultimak I dug up another photo for you - Not my photo or rifle just an example

Edited December 2, 2010 by 762SLEDGEHAMMER

[bigdough666 1]

See that's nice, the Ultimak with the SGM. Might go that route and see what I gotta do to make it work. Thanks for all te help guys, I appreciate it.

[NM0 586]

Wow...kind of cool reading this thread and seeing my 5.45 as an example.

 

I enjoy the Ultimak + Primary Arms micro red dot. Natural fast acquisition.

 

The fitting of the SGM wasn't bad. Just a little time and patience.

[bigdough666 1]

Good to know, that's the route I'm going.

 

Beautiful rifle, sorry mine is gonna look pretty similar, except mine is a 7.62

[NM0 586]

Good to know, that's the route I'm going.

 

Beautiful rifle, sorry mine is gonna look pretty similar, except mine is a 7.62

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

I looked at many images of other rifles as research before I did mine. So far I'm very pleased with the set up and have been thinking about doing one of the 7.62's with a Ultimak.

 

Try not to make the forearm loose fitting by taking it on and off a bunch of times. If it is loose or has a wobble (guns vary) there are ways to deal with it.

 

If you have any questions while you doing it just drop me a line.

[bigdough666 1]

Thanks I'm sure I will need help.

[brackij 1]

nmo what kind of stock do you have?? i am just starting my first build and i want a folding stock . I LOVE your set up up and it looks like excatly what I want to do with my first saiga. what parts are you using on the front rail ? if you do not mind i would love to just copy your setup . i think it is perfect for what i want to do. i want to mount optics/reddot but i want to keep the front rail as streamlined as possible and your set up looks like what I want. i get my picatinny up top for red dot and picatinny underneath for light etc. can you cowitness your iron sights with the red dot using this setup? please let me know what parts I need for this setup I AM SOLD!! been looking at a lot of stuff over the las several months and i like this set up best. your damn rifle rocks!! thx

[chupa 34]

I did mine a little different.

 

[NM0 586]

brackij

 

I picked up main components from CSS...

 

TRIGGER GROUP-SAIGA RIFLE MODIFIED FIRE CONTROL GROUP

TRIGGER GUARD-BOLT ON "ROUNDED"

GRIP AK/SAIGA GRIP NUT

GRIP AK/SAIGA HOGUE FINGER GROOVE BLACK

INTERNAL RECEIVER BLOCK- STOCK ADAPTER

STOCK FOLDING MECHANISM

ACE SKELETON 8.5"

SAIGA 223, 7.62x39, 5.45 AND 308 SGM TRI-RAIL

VERTICAL GRIP- GRAPHITE BLACK

 

The Ultimak and red dot from Primary Arms as a combo deal.

 

chupa

 

I like the looks of the straight across cut. Saw a few others that did it and debated the straight cut. Nice job on you rifle.

[brackij 1]

nmo_ THANKS FOR THE INFO. i HAVE been to the CSS website and they offer lots of packages but from the info they give i can not determine which is best for what I want to do. it seems none of the parts packages come with an ace stock..just tapco or magpul stocks are offered in there packages. i assume i will have to get the ace stock and stock folding mechanism directly from ace?? i heard that tromix and dinzang offered a premodified FCG to make installation easier?? did you just make your purchase piece by piece or start with a kit? I amthinking since i am going with the ace stock then i should just by the cheapest kit they have without stock etc. i see tromix sells a folding mechanism that will work with the ace stock. I prefer the non push button type stock and I do not know if this mechanism will work. lots of things to consider but this is getting kind of fun. i appreciate you guys pointing me in the right direction with my parts purchases ... it will save me a lot of time and headaches learning from your mistakes. chupa does have one damn good looking rifle and you do as well nmo. just wish chupa had not posted his pics because now i am debating between his straight cross cut and your set up nmo. i was sold on yours but chupas setup has me thinking, damn so many options. looking forward to this build. thks for your time and info nmo.

[NM0 586]

CSS kits are great but they also have all the parts separate.

 

Everything on mine came from CSS...Ace and all, except the Ultimak which CSS does have. PA had a deal with red dot combo so I bought it there.

 

Read more in here and you will answer many of your other questions.

 

Good luck.

[brackij 1]

yeah thx for the tips. i am just gonna go ahead and buy the stuff i need seperate and jump in with both feet. thx fo pointing me in the right direction. i am sure i will be crying to you soon for help if i get stuck which i am sure i will LOL. bullet guide install mag catch modification etc. looks pretty straight forward. i think things will get a little tricky for me when i start dealing with the trigger group etc.hopefully things will turn out well. talk to you soon and thx again for the advice and tips