Hollow base 5.45 bullet

[johnnyrocketeer 2]

It seems like everything I read about the 5.45x39 cartridge makes mention of the bullets tendancy to destabilize upon impact and end up going rear-end first through part of the target. So could the bullet design be improved upon further by making the base of the bullet like a hollow point? With an open base and shallow striations cut in the jacket along the axis of the bullet, it could function just like a modern hollow point pistol bullet, only backwards!

 

The bullet would retain its aerodynamic shape in flight, and feeding problems would be avoided because the hollow point is on the other end. In theory, the bullet would expand after tumbling and be more effective.

 

...or does something like this already exist?

[Marc 147]

Surplus Bulgy 5.45x39mm bullets have a hollow base already, I've pulled a few. Also pulled some wolf 5.45 bullets, they are not hollow base bullets.

 

The bullets are fine like they are, when they destabilize and flip over is when they dump their energy into the target. Also, they will more then likely fragment into a lot of smaller, jagged pieces when they get sideways instead of flipping all the way over and traveling ass first through the rest of the target...like they where designed to to.

 

having expanding hollow base bullets wouldn't do anything to improve anything in this caliber...or any caliber for that matter.

[beefcakeb99 572]

It seems like everything I read about the 5.45x39 cartridge makes mention of the bullets tendancy to destabilize upon impact and end up going rear-end first through part of the target. So could the bullet design be improved upon further by making the base of the bullet like a hollow point? With an open base and shallow striations cut in the jacket along the axis of the bullet, it could function just like a modern hollow point pistol bullet, only backwards!

 

The bullet would retain its aerodynamic shape in flight, and feeding problems would be avoided because the hollow point is on the other end. In theory, the bullet would expand after tumbling and be more effective.

 

...or does something like this already exist?

I am pretty sure they are designed the way they are for that reason alone...

[jimdigriz 580]

The bullets are fine like they are, when they destabilize and flip over is when they dump their energy into the target. Also, they will more then likely fragment into a lot of smaller, jagged pieces when they get sideways instead of flipping all the way over and traveling ass first through the rest of the target...like they where designed to to.

 

Hmmm....I've read that fragmentation is rare with 7N6, although a bit more common at close range. The only wounding mechanism you can count on is the tumbling.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

An issue with having the the conventional hollow point features (deep nose cavity and grooves/striations) on the rear of a bullet is the bullet receives the blast of pressure from powder ignition which would cause it to start expanding in the barrel or a loose or long chamber. It could cause fragmentation before it exits the barrel or a squib. Additionally, it would cause an increase in pressure due to the increased surface area of the bullet after it started expanding in the barrel.

 

If this was solved, it would probably be a devastating projectile. Although it would be pricey as militaries using them would likely be violating the Hague Convention regarding expanding bullets.

[Marc 147]

The bullets are fine like they are, when they destabilize and flip over is when they dump their energy into the target. Also, they will more then likely fragment into a lot of smaller, jagged pieces when they get sideways instead of flipping all the way over and traveling ass first through the rest of the target...like they where designed to to.

 

Hmmm....I've read that fragmentation is rare with 7N6, although a bit more common at close range. The only wounding mechanism you can count on is the tumbling.

 

well I've read that stuff to, I suppose I should have worded my statement differently and used "might fragment" instead.

[Marc 147]

An issue with having the the conventional hollow point features (deep nose cavity and grooves/striations) on the rear of a bullet is the bullet receives the blast of pressure from powder ignition which would cause it to start expanding in the barrel or a loose or long chamber. It could cause fragmentation before it exits the barrel or a squib. Additionally, it would cause an increase in pressure due to the increased surface area of the bullet after it started expanding in the barrel.

 

If this was solved, it would probably be a devastating projectile. Although it would be pricey as militaries using them would likely be violating the Hague Convention regarding expanding bullets.

 

 

Hollow base bullets where and still are very common and this has never been an issue. As a matter of fact, some of the first "hollow point" revolver bullets where hollow base wadcutter bullets handloaded upside down in the case.

[essohbe 47]

Hmmm....I've read that fragmentation is rare with 7N6, although a bit more common at close range. The only wounding mechanism you can count on is the tumbling.

 

I've never heard of them fragmenting like a .223 either but the tumbling of the 5.45 is almost always consistent. I think it's an even trade. Either way, i wouldn't want to get hit with either of them

 

5.56/.223 depends on the barrel length and distance of the shot to fragment reliably and do bigger permanent tissue cavity damage whereas 5.45 is designed to be shot from the 16" AK74 barrel though it does bigger temporary tissue cavity damage through consistent yaw.

 

Yea, I got bored one day and studied the ballistics reports. Lol.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

An issue with having the the conventional hollow point features (deep nose cavity and grooves/striations) on the rear of a bullet is the bullet receives the blast of pressure from powder ignition which would cause it to start expanding in the barrel or a loose or long chamber. It could cause fragmentation before it exits the barrel or a squib. Additionally, it would cause an increase in pressure due to the increased surface area of the bullet after it started expanding in the barrel.

 

If this was solved, it would probably be a devastating projectile. Although it would be pricey as militaries using them would likely be violating the Hague Convention regarding expanding bullets.

 

 

Hollow base bullets where and still are very common and this has never been an issue. As a matter of fact, some of the first "hollow point" revolver bullets where hollow base wadcutter bullets handloaded upside down in the case.

 

I am not saying it isn't possible, but the idea above is to get the base and jacket to expand and flower out immediately after entering and tumbling over itself in organic tissue. This is not what current hollow base bullets are designed to do as it is simply an efficient way to jacket the bullet for Full Metal Jacket bullets. Lead semi wad cutters are usually shot at very low pressures, where rifle bullets usually must withstand 4-6 times that amount.

 

In order to provide expansion or flowering upon tumbling in the target, you would likely have to weaken the jacket/case with grooves or striations as was mentioned before. But since the base receives the pressure of the powder blast at 51,000 Pounds per square inch, the impact of the bullet in the target will ultimately have less overall direct pressure(or energy)upon hitting the intended target as it still has to exit the barrel, pierce the target and tumble (thus losing some of that directed energy).

 

My personal opinion is that you would have to design it to expand upon the exiting of the chamber without disturbing its spiraling arc, or coat the base so the core and jacket soften while staying bonded to each other at a set increment after receiving the initial heat and pressure of the powder blast.

 

Again, not impossible, but it is easier to get a bigger caliber or a soft point/ballistic tip in my opinion.

[Zeroselect 3]

I thought the reason for a hollow base was for stability in flight?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I thought the reason for a hollow base was for stability in flight?

 

Yes, it's likely the main reason for hollow based bullet. For example Foster-type shotgun slugs are accurate due to their hollow base, like a badminton shuttle cock.