Need Opinion on Upper Handguard

[sjgusmc21 850]

So I am doing my S-12 pretty much the same way as Paulski did his. However, I want to make a full upper hand guard wood cover to mate/match to the lower hand guard. So, with my limited MS Paint skills, I used a picture of Paulski's(S-12) and modded it to look like what I am shooting for. I would like some comments/opinions on what I am about to start on. My theory is to take a lower handguard, cut, shape, bastardize it into a full length upper cover. I would mate it to the lower hg by a overlapping channel, and using small screws on both sides to secure it. I will also cut out the ends of a upper gas tube to use on it as end caps. I was going to go the Galil wooden hg route....still really like the look, but with the parts and shipping adding up to well over $130, I decided against this. So, any opions, comments, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Yeah, my MS Paint skills are lacking, but it gets the point across. Thanks and take care. Semper Fi!

Modded Paulski S-12.bmp

[gregomega 929]

Here's an idea courtesy of cobra76two: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=5178

 

 

And also: http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/akpou12.html

 

I just bought one of these: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-263/Saiga-12-20-Vented/Detail

For my upper.

 

And also Paulyski is doing some top shelf work. Might want to see what he can do for you?

 

 

Just some options

 

Good luck

[sjgusmc21 850]

Here's an idea courtesy of cobra76two: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=5178

 

One of the first threads I read. His came out great, but I want a full tube cover.

 

And also: http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/akpou12.html

 

Way out of my price range. Freak'n sweet though. I will be ordering his retainer though. Have ordered form Dinzag before...stand up guy!

 

I just bought one of these: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-263/Saiga-12-20-Vented/Detail

For my upper.

 

One of the first things I ordered. Unfortunately, I probably will be selling it. Very rough, bluing was not very good. So I gunkoted it. When I tried to install it, it scratched the hell out of my freshly gunkoted gas tube! Not my cup of tea, but great product.

 

And also Paulyski is doing some top shelf work. Might want to see what he can do for you?

 

Yeah, I asked Paulyski for permission to use his photo before I posted. He did mention that he has a project like mine that he is trying to get to.

 

Just some options

 

Good luck

 

Thanks for the help and guidance!

[gregomega 929]

Here's an idea courtesy of cobra76two: http://forum.saiga-1...?showtopic=5178

 

One of the first threads I read. His came out great, but I want a full tube cover.

 

And also: http://www.dinzagarm...12/akpou12.html

 

Way out of my price range. Freak'n sweet though. I will be ordering his retainer though. Have ordered form Dinzag before...stand up guy!

 

I just bought one of these: http://store.carolin...0-Vented/Detail

For my upper.

 

One of the first things I ordered. Unfortunately, I probably will be selling it. Very rough, bluing was not very good. So I gunkoted it. When I tried to install it, it scratched the hell out of my freshly gunkoted gas tube! Not my cup of tea, but great product.

 

And also Paulyski is doing some top shelf work. Might want to see what he can do for you?

 

Yeah, I asked Paulyski for permission to use his photo before I posted. He did mention that he has a project like mine that he is trying to get to.

 

Just some options

 

Good luck

 

Thanks for the help and guidance!

 

 

Welcome. Hope you figure something out. The GT cover also scratchs the crap out of my tube.

[skiboatsp 111]

Here's an idea courtesy of cobra76two: http://forum.saiga-1...?showtopic=5178

 

One of the first threads I read. His came out great, but I want a full tube cover.

 

And also: http://www.dinzagarm...12/akpou12.html

 

Way out of my price range. Freak'n sweet though. I will be ordering his retainer though. Have ordered form Dinzag before...stand up guy!

 

I just bought one of these: http://store.carolin...0-Vented/Detail

For my upper.

 

One of the first things I ordered. Unfortunately, I probably will be selling it. Very rough, bluing was not very good. So I gunkoted it. When I tried to install it, it scratched the hell out of my freshly gunkoted gas tube! Not my cup of tea, but great product.

 

And also Paulyski is doing some top shelf work. Might want to see what he can do for you?

 

Yeah, I asked Paulyski for permission to use his photo before I posted. He did mention that he has a project like mine that he is trying to get to.

 

Just some options

 

Good luck

 

Thanks for the help and guidance!

 

 

Welcome. Hope you figure something out. The GT cover also scratchs the crap out of my tube.

 

A friend also had trouble with it not fitting.

[gregomega 929]

A friend also had trouble with it not fitting.

 

Does that mean you are gonna start a kick ass part business and solve all our problems so then we can have sweet machines like your's aswell??

[sjgusmc21 850]

So now I am looking for a elusive part. If I am stepping on Dinzags toes, then I apologize. I did tear up his site trying to find this part, but could not, other then mentioned in his pdf for the conversion. When I was cruising yesterday, I stumbled on a bolt-on forward upper retainer for the saiga 12, but didn't realized what it was for. Now that I do, sure would make my life easier to mount the top hang guard. Regardless, if anyone knows where to buy this, please let me know. Starting to get cross-eyed trying to find all of the parts I need. Thanks.

[gregomega 929]

The only thing that you'll néed is the lower hg retainer: http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/bor1220.html

 

They unfortunately don't make upper hg retainers for the s12. Dinzag might supply them for his presson upper assembly bit not sold separately.

 

After that you will just need a akm takeoff wood furniture.

 

Edit: ok so after looking at the picture, I realize he added the upper hg and retainers. Looks like we'll both be waiting for parts

Edited January 28, 2011 by AZG

[sjgusmc21 850]

The only thing that you'll néed is the lower hg retainer: http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/bor1220.html

 

They unfortunately don't make upper hg retainers for the s12. Dinzag might supply them for his presson upper assembly bit not sold separately.

 

After that you will just need a akm takeoff wood furniture.

 

Edit: ok so after looking at the picture, I realize he added the upper hg and retainers. Looks like we'll both be waiting for parts

 

Well, if I can't find them, then I will just stick with my original plan and cut the retainers off of a spare gas tube I have and use them. Just was trying to get away from making the over-lapping lip on the top/bottom handguards and using 4 screws (two on each side) to attach them together. Of course, once I am done, I am sure they will be available.... I emailed dinzzag and asked about them.

Edited January 28, 2011 by sjgusmc21

[sjgusmc21 850]

Here is my long overdue S-12. Pretty much done, except for a few items. Dinzzag told me he would have the upper hand guard retainers available in March sometime, so just did my own thing. Waiting on MD Arms short flash suppressor, V-Plug and KA Tappet. Polished the bolt, hammer, etc. myself but needs more work. Installed the BHO and seems to function well. Had to bend the spring to keep it from slipping. Will probably notch it to make sure it stays, but don't think it will be going anywhere as is. Although it doesn't look like it, I can see the sights/bead just fine. Will probably install Dinzags front sight when available (short one). Gun Koted it (completely stripped down to metal) and seems to be OK. The butt stock is made from some freak of nature wood, damn hard and took me a few weeks to shape it correctly. Must have been a Friday original. The top handguard is made from a lower piece. Of course, I used Dinzzags lower hand guard retainer. Lots of reshaping to get the lower hand guard to fit. The pistol grip is from K-Var, and it was a mess! Multiple dye jobs, sanding and polishing and it finally looks acceptable. I have three holes that seem not to be blocked. I will find out this coming weekend, as I have a variety of shells to put it through its paces. Yes, I know, should have shot it first, but I don't get to go to the range but about 3 to 4 times a year, and I actually buy these things to keep myself busy. But I will report back once I have tested it. For some reason the top of the handguard looks like it is taller in the front, it is not. Again, THANK YOU all for your valuable input and help. God, I love this forum! Semper Fi!

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

That looks awesome

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Really good work

[sjgusmc21 850]

Just wanted to give a range report and a few lessons learned. Wood worked out great. Tight, and functional. I could shoot 2.75 on setting 3 (MD V-Plug and KA puck) and 3" on setting 4. Low brass was a no go on any setting. FTE 100% of the time. However, my Promag (although a bit loose) 12 round drum, 2 AGP 10 rounders and 1 factory 5 rounder worked great! Not one FTF. Now, I could kick myself in the pants for not trying the factory plug and puck. But I was schooling a new comer to the ways of the 12 gauge shotgun (also with Rem 870), so I was a little distracted. At some point, I will remove the gas block and make the necessary corrections. I did notice the rear trunion (name?) did have some paint chipped from it, so I know it was a little over gassed, or just chipping off the gun kote I applied. I polished the BCG and hammer, but did not profile it. Might hit up one of the vendors for this as I don't want to damage the profile. I will say that I have since removed the wood and went back to plastic K-Var stock and forearm. I will be mounting a CTR stock on it very soon to see how it feels. The wood was nice, but the shottie is just a bit on the heavy side for me. I have come to learn that function is much more appealing then looks. Don't get me wrong, the wood felt good. Just wanted to lighten up my gun. The Ram trigger guard also bent and some of the paint chipped off. Was trying to get away from cutting the hole, but that is what I get for half assing it to start with. Yes, the pistol grip was tight. Those 3" magnums are freak'n awesome! I was quite impressed with the accuracy of the slugs at 50 years. Having never shot slugs, wasn't for sure what to expect. Had to aim at 11 O'clock but hit the black consistently. Love my Saiga-12, and once I get the gas holes fixed, sure it will be 100% reliable. BTW, the BHO worked great, no problems at all. Guess I put around 150 rounds through it....mostly high brass 2.75 buck/slug and 3" BB and a few slugs since the low brass wouldn't eject. Again, what a great forum and thank you all for your help and expertise!

 

Just for clarification, I have a 3 hole gun. None of the holes seem to be blocked...although I think doing the 'D' modification and possibly opening them up a little will help. When I look at them, the 2 side holes seem to be slightly covered (just smidgon...sorry, couldn't think of a better term). Won't know until I remove the gas block. I do like the V-Plug, very easy to turn...whether on the first box of rounds or on the 10th.

Edited February 27, 2011 by sjgusmc21

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

It turned out looking really nice with the wood. I don't care for the screws visible from mounting the upper retainers, but you do what you gotta do sometimes to get what you want. Seems to me those would be very prone to cracking the wood mounted so close to the edges.

I still catch a bunch of shit for using the JB Weld I used on my upper retainers. Hey it worked, and still works after 5 yrs, so who cares. What I did, when I did it first, I didn't know any better way to pull it off without burning my pretty blonde wood with heat from welding or silver soldering. Now that I know how to remove the gas tube with no problems, I know I could have done what I did without the JB. Live and learn...

The advantage to the way I did mine was, I can now use a cleaning rod. You can't do that with the bolt on lower retainer.

I'm also currently working on a new design for attaching regular AK HGs to the S-12. It will allow for using a regular length upper HG, or a full length like you wanted if the customer has no interest in upgrading to AK sights. Speaking of sights, if you were still able to shoot slugs accurately, did you use a side mount and optic? Or were you still able to see your factory sights clearly? It looks close. I know I couldn't see mine when I installed a real AK upper HG. IMO you would do good to at least spring for dinzag's new upgraded front sight. Sounds like you may be able to get away with the short model.

 

Plus one for function over looks. Some people like to make their guns so pretty they are scared to take them out of the safe even....or have to keep them padded cases, even inside the safe. I believe in using mine and just trying to be careful when handling them or moving them around the other guns in the safe. It's like having a nice shiny 4x4 truck and gasping at the thought of ever taking it off road where it might get a little scratch on it somewhere from a briar hanging out into the path or whatever. Function is more important than looks ever were. Adding the heavier wood should have actually helped with function if anything. You definitely need to address the problem where it is...excess friction on the moving parts....and only then should you mess with the ports. Let me know if I can help you with that.

Don't worry about the little bit of paint that chipped off your rear block from contact with the bolt carrier. That does NOT mean your gun is "over gassed" either. Sounds under gassed if anything. The gun is designed to take a little abuse. The rear block and bolt carrier are supposed to be able to make contact like that, it's how all AKs are. It's designed like that, and that design is the most reliable and most used battle rifle in the world....and has been for 50+ years. Don't worry about a little paint chip here or there. These guns are built for service, not looks.

 

Edit to add...

Great job on the build. Not trying to criticize here.

 

[sjgusmc21 850]

Cobra, no criticism from your reply was noted what so ever and thank you for taking the time to give me you honest opinion. You do a great service to this site, and any advice coming from you is GREATLY APPRECIATED. I am VERY THICK SKINNED, so any opinions are welcome! I for one thought your conversion was excellent! JB Weld or not. Hell, that is what I used to hold the end caps on with. As for the screws, well, believe me I struggled with this for a while, but finally decided on the easy way out. If Dinzag's retainers were available, I would have ordered two, but they are not. This was my first attempt, so I am sure my next try will be a little more refined. The holes are solid....I used thin CA to soak into the holes to give them strength and the piece is really snugly fit into place. Man, I would give ANYTHING to have a place to set up shop at. All of my tools are in storage and all of my work is done on a small apt. patio. I think 90% of my work done is with my dremel! What a wonderful tool! If I could weld, and I would do it in a minute, but I can't. Took two years of it before I joined the Corps and someday will be able to do it again....just being able to weld opens up limitless opportunities!

 

As for the sights, yes, I can fully see them. Using a extra lower hand guard to shape the top gave me lots of space for trial and error. And yes, I will be getting Dinzag's lower front sight when it is available. I like how it looks original and there are no bolts on the bottom of it.

 

When it comes to function and appearance, well I not hitting and rolling any longer, so I do take care of my guns. Anal no, a little picky, yes. I live in Northern VA and it is a real pain in the ass to go shoot, anytime. When I move back to Texas, this will be remedied!

 

The paint chipping on the rear, yeah, it was probably just that. The paint. Last time I use gun kote on a non-parked gun. Stuff is great otherwise. Might try my hand at duracoat this weekend, and then again might find someone to send it to for a good park job. Will see. I have read so much here, that sometimes it can be overwhelming. I will get the BCG profiled, no doubt.

 

AS for these guns being tough...well, YES THEY ARE. I have just about shot everything the Corps has to offer for a Infantryman and know my 'M16ish's' inside and out. BUT, if it came down to it, I would pick my Saiga AK over my AR15A2 in a heartbeat! Whenever I am talking with my Gun Buds, I always just come out of nowhere with, 'Did I tell you I LOVE my AK?' Love the look on their faces.

 

Cobra, again, THANK YOU for taking the time to reply. I can sum it up no better then, 'You Da Man'! Semper Fi!

Edited February 27, 2011 by sjgusmc21

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Cool man good luck with that duracoat. It's good stuff, just make sure and prep your surface good first.

 

I did want to comment some on what's been said here and in other threads lately about the steel gas tube covers. Rather than jack your thread with it (by your permission only...) I decided to copy and paste the earlier comments in this thread to my business section, in the thread I have there about them....so I could properly address the issues at hand. There's a good reason for all the latest complaints I have heard about with those heat shields.

 

Again, great job getting your S-12 looking like that. Nice finishing too. Maybe be careful with that GL recoil pad on there unless you have a lot of varnish or something on there. I put one like that on my Blonde Bulgy stock and it left permanent marks in the finish where the oils or dye somehow leached into the finish.