Torqued 8 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 You have to forgive my noobness, and I completely understand the legal implications of making such a change, but Im just curious if someone was to remove the tooth on the trigger disconnect, would that make the gun into a perma full auto? Obviously this is not the right way to make a full auto, as it would remove the ability to convert it back to semi, but Im just curious. You never know, perhaps if the Zombies come and the SHTF, you never know when you might need a full auto S12 in a pinch Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 no the hammer would move with the carrier causing a single action. happened to my buddies rpk, the disconector broke. Link to post Share on other sites
jamen 8 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 No it wouldn't work, and could be dangerous. What would happen is the hammer would follow the carrier back into battery. The carrier has a projection at the rear to keep the hammer from hitting the bolt and the firing pin until the gun is in battery. Most likely the gun would fire only one shot, and the gun would end up with the hammer down on a live round. Possibly, if the hammer spring were strong enough and the primers on the shells sensitive enough, once in a while a second shot would go off. Real machine guns (that fire from a closed bolt) have a set up to keep the hammer back until the bolt is in battery, and then the bolt/carrier trips that sear that holds the hammer back automatically, and releases the hammer then to fire a second shot. On AK style guns the selector, when in the "auto position" pushes a tail on the disconnector (the hook inside the trigger) to rotate it out of the way. This tail is usually absent on semi-auto guns. You still have the catch on the trigger though, so when you release the trigger that catches the hammer and interrupts the firing cycle, even on full auto. Assuming the selector is on auto, on a full auto AK a lever-like part, usually called an auto sear, catches the hammer in a notch on the front bottom of the hammer and then releases it only when the carrier goes into battery, and trips the sear, a part of which protrudes through the rail on the right side of the receiver. This involves a third axis pin in the receiver, the sear and a spring. The hammer is also different, as it has the front notch, that the semi-auto hammers do not have. This setup is the way regular AKs work. The interior of the Saiga 12 is a little different, and the regular AK full auto parts would not fit in a Saiga 12 without a great deal of modification to the gun (beyond what would be needed to otherwise convert a semi auto AK to a full auto one). So far as I know there is no factory full auto Saiga 12, and while folks who have the legal permission to do so have converted these guns to full auto, I don't know if they did a modified version of the regular full auto AK, or used a different system to accomplish this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 No it wouldn't work, and could be dangerous. What would happen is the hammer would follow the carrier back into battery. The carrier has a projection at the rear to keep the hammer from hitting the bolt and the firing pin until the gun is in battery. Most likely the gun would fire only one shot, and the gun would end up with the hammer down on a live round. Possibly, if the hammer spring were strong enough and the primers on the shells sensitive enough, once in a while a second shot would go off. Real machine guns (that fire from a closed bolt) have a set up to keep the hammer back until the bolt is in battery, and then the bolt/carrier trips that sear that holds the hammer back automatically, and releases the hammer then to fire a second shot. On AK style guns the selector, when in the "auto position" pushes a tail on the disconnector (the hook inside the trigger) to rotate it out of the way. This tail is usually absent on semi-auto guns. You still have the catch on the trigger though, so when you release the trigger that catches the hammer and interrupts the firing cycle, even on full auto. Assuming the selector is on auto, on a full auto AK a lever-like part, usually called an auto sear, catches the hammer in a notch on the front bottom of the hammer and then releases it only when the carrier goes into battery, and trips the sear, a part of which protrudes through the rail on the right side of the receiver. This involves a third axis pin in the receiver, the sear and a spring. The hammer is also different, as it has the front notch, that the semi-auto hammers do not have. This setup is the way regular AKs work. The interior of the Saiga 12 is a little different, and the regular AK full auto parts would not fit in a Saiga 12 without a great deal of modification to the gun (beyond what would be needed to otherwise convert a semi auto AK to a full auto one). So far as I know there is no factory full auto Saiga 12, and while folks who have the legal permission to do so have converted these guns to full auto, I don't know if they did a modified version of the regular full auto AK, or used a different system to accomplish this. +1 OP: This is probably the biggest misconception about full-auto firearms. The auto-sear in fullauto guns does still hold the trigger back, just for enough time for the bolt to lockup before releasing. Once the bolt is locked up, the auto sear is usually "tripped" and releases the trigger. This all happens of course very quickly. FYI, The AR can be made full auto with a registered receiver (third hole that holds the auto sear), or by a clever linkage called a Lightening Link that accomplishes the same thing with no mods to the gun. The LL is clever in it's simple function but it's only for the AR platform. There "could" be LL like products for other guns (in fact, superglue can be used for the SKS) but I'm not framiliar with any AK type devices like that. I live near a class3, I'd like to convince him to do a full auto Saiga-12 sometime just for my own amusement Link to post Share on other sites
pimpjuice 0 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Well its not hard to make a fullauto sear for an ak based platform. Just takes aliitle machine work to build the sear. and u could even use one of the holes that the sight rail is riveted on thru Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think this has been covered enough... pretty much not going to make a firearm full auto... but certainly will make it unsafe... Link to post Share on other sites
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