psl sniper 963 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 heres my new tokarev. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images§ion=viewimage&img=3671 the ammo in the pic is czec, it has a laquered case and a silver bullet. anyone have any info on it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have a box of those. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, is that those were for SMGs like the PPS and PPSH. Were loaded much hotter and shouldn't be used in pistols. This is what I read. Because of that I hadn't touched the box I have. Since its only ONE box i wasn't really loosing money. It just sits on the shelf for the time being. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Either of you know which way the pin comes out to remove the extractor on an M57? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 heres my new tokarev. http://forum.saiga-1...wimage&img=3671 the ammo in the pic is czec, it has a laquered case and a silver bullet. anyone have any info on it? I could not get your picture to load, but congratulation on the new 7.62x25 shooter. As to the ammo, I have about 800 rounds of lit left. It was good shooting ammo, but would crack in the neck on some fired rounds. It is said to be able to kill a werewolf wearing level 3A ballistic armor... so you have that covered... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tktm 13 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) did you check to see if they were steel core? Edited March 4, 2011 by tktm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 If I recall correctly, that ammo has a steel jacket, but not a steel core. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 these particular rnds do have a steel core. which is why they are hard to find right now. and yes i opened one up. a lot of surplus has copper washed steel jackets over lead bullets, which is why a magnet will stick to them. only way to tell for sure is recover one or open one up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 If I recall correctly, that ammo has a steel jacket, but not a steel core. they are actually jacketed in nickle much like some old surplus Mauser ammo i once had. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 My buddy blew out his bedroom window with his NEW tokarev... Put a bullet in the chamber, and without the magazine inserted, released the slide... ( because he wanted that one extra round...) BOOM!!!! Thank god it was pointing out the window in a safe direction and not done at the dinner table, or pointing towards himself... etc... 70 bucks for a new window... It will do this just about EVERY TIME... is this COMMON for the tokarevs to function like that?!?!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 My buddy blew out his bedroom window with his NEW tokarev... Put a bullet in the chamber, and without the magazine inserted, released the slide... ( because he wanted that one extra round...) BOOM!!!! Thank god it was pointing out the window in a safe direction and not done at the dinner table, or pointing towards himself... etc... 70 bucks for a new window... It will do this just about EVERY TIME... is this COMMON for the tokarevs to function like that?!?!? I noticed the same thing when I first got mine until really looking at how it functions. The way the trigger / hammer group is designed, it's easy for the hammer to release with any kind of impact if no magazine is inserted, which is why they are designed with a magazine safety. Most people don't put a round in the chamber by hand while the slide is open and then let the slide slam shut anyway, though. There is a little leaf spring that needs pressure applied to it to force the hammer to stay cocked unless the trigger is pulled to release it. The magazine applies pressure to this part to hold the hammer open. It's not a defect in your buddies pistol. It's a slight design flaw. It will happen even if you cock it with no magazine inserted and tap the bore-end of the pistol against something solid. Trust me, I have marks on my night stand to prove it. Still a great pistol and I have no reservations about carrying it. I just wouldn't carry it with a round chambered, no magazine inserted and the hammer cocked. When pressure is applied to the little leaf spring, it's impossible to release the hammer without pulling the trigger. I have slammed the pistol into solid objects and dropped it from 10+ feet straight into the floor to test. No malfunctions or slam fires if a magazine is inserted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted March 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 My buddy blew out his bedroom window with his NEW tokarev... Put a bullet in the chamber, and without the magazine inserted, released the slide... ( because he wanted that one extra round...) BOOM!!!! Thank god it was pointing out the window in a safe direction and not done at the dinner table, or pointing towards himself... etc... 70 bucks for a new window... It will do this just about EVERY TIME... is this COMMON for the tokarevs to function like that?!?!? mines never done that. ive tried it several times to mimick the results, nada no dice. mine works fine. what type of tokarev did youre buddy have? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have a Polish and a Yugo and sometimes carry them. My have never done that and that is the same way I load them. Put the round in the chamber, release slide, stick in the mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mayor Al 41 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 My Soviet Tok operates safely. I feed round #1 from a loaded magazine, then 'slowly' (manually) let the slide move forward and seat. I don't usually let the slide fly free when I hit the release. Then it goes on 'Half-Cock', the only safety my gun has. It has worked that way without accidental discharge since I got it 50 years ago. I seldom bother to add a cartridge to the Mag to replace the chambered first round. AL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 It is hard to see how a pistol that malfunctioned in the way described would not continue to slam fire after the first round was discharged by a normal trigger pull. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 It is hard to see how a pistol that malfunctioned in the way described would not continue to slam fire after the first round was discharged by a normal trigger pull. It's the way it is designed. With pressure applied as I said above, it keeps the hammer from dropping without a pull of the trigger. Without the pressure, the hammer releases easily with impact. With a magazine inserted, the pistol will never slam-fire. In theory, and in the wrong hands, it would be quite simple to turn these pistols into slam-fire full auto pistols. I would never attempt it, but I am sure it has been done before by some bored hillbilly, based on how they function. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 It is hard to see how a pistol that malfunctioned in the way described would not continue to slam fire after the first round was discharged by a normal trigger pull. It's the way it is designed. With pressure applied as I said above, it keeps the hammer from dropping without a pull of the trigger. Without the pressure, the hammer releases easily with impact. With a magazine inserted, the pistol will never slam-fire. ... So, the last two rounds always double? Doubtful. This is a ripoff 1911 design, and it is quite common for a 1911 to fall to half cock if it has had a trigger job and there is no magazine in the pistol. If it falls to strike the firing pin, that is another issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 So, the last two rounds always double? Doubtful. No. It will only slam fire if no magazine is inserted to hold the hammer in the cocked position. If my battery wasn't dead I would disassemble and take detailed pics and post a video to show what I'm talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 It shouldn't slam fire like that. All of these guns are used, some more than others. Either the sear spring needs replacing, or the sear/hammer engagement is out of spec. The Czech ammo was all loaded to SMG spec, and they just built the CZ 52s to handle it. They didn't want to mess with keeping track of two different loadings. The Czech ammo shouldn't be fired in any of the Tokarev pistols. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) That's just all commercial hype! Russians made smg ammo as well. Both my toks shoot anything I put in them Edited March 24, 2011 by Arik 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Boy, these guys with the Toks hate to believe the observed reality! My CZ gobbles up the Czech ammo by the thousands. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Boy, these guys with the Toks hate to believe the observed reality! My CZ gobbles up the Czech ammo by the thousands. so does my yugo m57. just wish i had a few K, for my pps 43. p.s.what observed reality? in you opinion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Boy, these guys with the Toks hate to believe the observed reality! My CZ gobbles up the Czech ammo by the thousands. so does my yugo m57. just wish i had a few K, for my pps 43. p.s.what observed reality? in you opinion? My opinion, I believe that the CZ is the better, stronger, pistol. But there are some around here that vehemently agree with me. Now to be honest, they are more prone to breaking firing pins if dry fired, however I have a Harrington machined Steel firing pin in mine and that it not an issue for me. They will also sometimes fire when you use the decocker if it is worn. Mine works fine. But I have never seen one where the hammer will follow just because you drop the slide without a mag in it. I have seen 1911s do it, with a trigger job and without a magazine in place. But, only to the half-cock. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No one said the cz was bad or flawed. Just saying that "ammo made for cz only" is bs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No one said the cz was bad or flawed. Just saying that "ammo made for cz only" is bs I think that ammo was a mistake. I have shot about 1M of it through my pistol. It is hotter, but I think it was just a batch error. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Well, one other thing he has told me is that he will SOMETIMES get "doubles" if the first cartridge does not completely cycle the action completely... and the hammer will ride back forward and shoot a second round... This Tok was a HAND pick... it came looking just about as NEW as new could be... Just pretty weird what its doing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I am sure that it could be repaired. I would think that the sear to hammer face is not square or some other equally fixed malady. Of course, if you just justify it, it will never get fixed. Right now, from what Indy Arms says, it is dangerous. I fixed several 1911s doing this exact same thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Not trying to JUSTIFY... just commenting on the CONDITION... meaning it isnt a used, beat up, shit the bed condition pistol... ( and thats why it might be doing what it is doing... ) but a near NEW condition one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Boy, these guys with the Toks hate to believe the observed reality! My CZ gobbles up the Czech ammo by the thousands. so does my yugo m57. just wish i had a few K, for my pps 43. p.s.what observed reality? in you opinion? My opinion, I believe that the CZ is the better, stronger, pistol. But there are some around here that vehemently agree with me. Now to be honest, they are more prone to breaking firing pins if dry fired, however I have a Harrington machined Steel firing pin in mine and that it not an issue for me. They will also sometimes fire when you use the decocker if it is worn. Mine works fine. But I have never seen one where the hammer will follow just because you drop the slide without a mag in it. I have seen 1911s do it, with a trigger job and without a magazine in place. But, only to the half-cock. good thing its just an opinion. ill take a yugo m57 over a cz52 anyday. ive already put a few hundred rnds of the supposedly "HOT" czech ammo through my yugo. gotta say, im not that impressed. it shot exactly the same as all the other surplus. now i have seen a few blown cz's. ive yet to see a a blown t33. i cant personally speak for the other t33's from other countries, but the m57 is top notch. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Not trying to JUSTIFY... just commenting on the CONDITION... meaning it isnt a used, beat up, shit the bed condition pistol... ( and thats why it might be doing what it is doing... ) but a near NEW condition one... I never said that you were trying to justify... every one is so damn touchy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) good thing its just an opinion. ill take a yugo m57 over a cz52 anyday. ive already put a few hundred rnds of the supposedly "HOT" czech ammo through my yugo. gotta say, im not that impressed. it shot exactly the same as all the other surplus.now i have seen a few blown cz's. ive yet to see a a blown t33. i cant personally speak for the other t33's from other countries, but the m57 is top notch. Yeah, I have heard this story before, any pictures? You have to wonder why the whole Internet is full of stories of "Don't shoot that hot Czech ammo in your Tok or you will blow it up" and YOU have see a "a few blown CZs" Haha, either way enjoy your Yugo, but don't kid yourself! And I would still strip this one down and take a look at the hammer/sear engagement! Edited March 26, 2011 by Azrial 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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