Stupid new guy questions

[shaneman153a 39]

Okay, just picked up a S-12 22" bbl full choke (I think) NIB today and I have a few questions, if the pro's don't mind......

 

1. On the front of the gas tube, what do the settings mean? I know they have to do with 2 3/4 or 3" shells, but which setting is for what, and what's the principal behind it? Should I just leave it on 1? (If it will cycle a 2 3/4)

 

2. Does the gas tube come off for normal cleaning, or is that a no-no?

 

3. On the front of the sight, there's an elevation adjustment, is there a trick to it? Or do you just use elbow grease? (I can't bring myself to force it, just in case I'm doing it wrong)

 

4. I paid $360.00 new in box, did I get hosed? It was the only place I could find anywhere that had a new one in stock. I really would have gone for a 19" threaded, but this is all that was available. The guy had two left, he told me I should buy both, wait six months, and take the spare to a gun show.

[shaneman153a 39]

Okay, forget question 1, I just found a different owner's manual that explains it all. Thanks!

[acetomatoco 0]

In regard to question (4)

In my opinion you did not get hosed.

If you found 1 cheaper somewhere else you would have to pay shipping and a FFL.

Which would bring you up to what you paid.

With them being hard to find its even harder to find them cheaper.

Does yours have a bolt open lever or is it an older one?

If you want to, talk him down on the other one.It could be an investment or the new importer could flood the market and you might have a gun that people might pass up.

[shaneman153a 39]

It's an '01 Model, so it doesn't have a bolt hold open, this is going to be a serious problem. The new one's come equipped with it?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Hey dude welcome aboard.

#2. NO it does not come off

#3. Yes small trick. See the tiny hole above and behind the wheel? Stick a small punch or pin in there and press upward on the spring to release the cam lock on the wheel while turning it.

edited for my bad typing as usual

Edited June 15, 2005 by Cobra 76 two

[CGuns 3]

Welcome!

 

#2 - Be careful as to how you clean the gas tube/gas port area. I never lube this area with oil. I simply spray a cloth with gun scrubber and give it a good cleaning.

 

Hope this helps,

 

CGuns

 

P.S. I bought 2 Saiga-12's with 22 inch barrels. I chopped one of my barrels down to 19.5 inches recently. Big Difference! Balances 100% better! Much easier to move around the house with, too.

 

Regards, CGuns

[acetomatoco 0]

It's an '01 Model, so it doesn't have a bolt hold open, this is going to be a serious problem.  The new one's come equipped with it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes the new ones do,search the forum there are posts of making/buying bolt hold levers that you can install. It takes a little work though.

[shaneman153a 39]

Okay, let's add another question. I've been sitting on this forum reading achives for about........3 hours. I keep coming across people throwing around the term "Proper break in" pertaining to feeding/ejecting/gas problems. What is a proper break in? The guy who sold me this gun gave me two boxes of cheap-a$$ 2 3/4" "Light clay target" rounds. Now I'm getting worried that these rounds won't feed.

 

I'm breaking this thing in on friday, I'm bringing 4 friends, and that would be extremely embarassing if I had to use it as a bolt-action-single-shot all day. Is there something else I should be shooting?

 

Now, on a lighter note, I cannot wait to upgrade, upgrade, upgrade! It's going to be a while, wife is pissed at me for buying a $700 PSL two months ago, and now this. If I so much as mention the words "Pistol Grip" or "AK sight set", I may be in deep doo-doo. Oh well, this gun is awesome the way it is, I can't wait to see how it shoots!

 

Thanks for all the help fellas!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Trust the force Luke...

Just take it to the range with confidence and shoot the crap out of it man. It will eat ANYTHING you feed it trust me. Just ask Bvamp about that one. After you and your buds laugh your way thru those first boxes of shells, with it set on#2, switch to setting #one and put some rifled slugs thru her. Pass her around and let everyone fall in love at the same time!

Word of warning: Don't have too much fun and forget to switch back to #1 before you shoot the slugs. Not only will your shoulder turn a nice shade of blue but it's not good for the gun.

[Jeric 0]

You'll be fine with those target loads! That's one thing I love about this gun, I can go to Gander Mtn, or some outdoor store, pick up 100 light target loads from winchester for about $15, and everyone can shoot clays or whatever all day long. You're gonna love it. And when you come in from your first day of shooting, trying like hell to remove the smile from your face, thinking to yourself 'wow, this thing is awesome...'. Just wait until you convert it, it shoots even better!

 

As far as the BHO goes, it's not a neccessary item for the gun to work right, or anything like that. It's just a personal preferrence thing. Some ranges require you to have a way to hold the bolt open, though.

 

If you need one, I just got done making a bunch. They're available now, with a spring. $25. PM/email me if you're interested. I personally think they're pretty slick.

 

Good luck!

[Bvamp 604]

some ranges will allow you to stick a flourecent magic marker into the open breech or some other bright plastic block type thing. and yeh, like cobra said, it WILL feed anything you feed it.

 

bring and camera and have your buddy take a picture of the look on your face the first time you shoot it when you KNOW you just HAVE to empty the thing....

[shaneman153a 39]

Man, you guys are just getting me stoked about going to shoot this thing. Yet another question, (Sorry fellas) is anyone on this forum in the Central Texas area (Ft. Hood, myself), and is there any "Good ol' boy ranges". I need a place that doesn't mind if I show up with two grocery bags full of canned goods and cantelopes.

 

Now I know this is the "wrong attitude", and "Al Gore would freak out", but this is the way I was raised to shoot shotguns. (Always clean up afterwards of course) I'm used to taking a buttload of rounds, a buttload of targets (To include old aquariums, toilets, whatever) out to some public land, blowing it up, cleaning it up, then going home. It seems there is NO PUBLIC LAND in Texas where you can do this. It's all "Two round max, bolt always open". I hope I am in the company of people who agree with me, but when you pick up a S-12, you don't say "Oh, this would be a great skeet gun". Personally, when I picked it up I said "I could blow up 30 pounds of watermelons in 1.5 seconds".

 

Can I get an amen?

 

P.S. Sorry about my tangent, does anyone know of a good place to shoot in Cen-Tex? he-he...

[shaneman153a 39]

Bvamp:

 

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to the arms room tomorrow to grab one of those military issued "Otis" cleaning kits. They have a flourescent piece of orange plastic that looks like a candy cane that you can jam in the breech. I think it's real purpose is to illuminate the inside of the barrel and check for debris. Oh well, no one uses them. Hopefully the on-post range will let this fly.

[AegisDei 2]

LMAO, hell yea! You must be a redneck too. First thing I did was pick up a watermelon, two cantelopes, two coconuts, some 7.5s and some slugs. I felt like Gallager only not in some fruity outfit with a pussy little mallet: I had a 12-gauge!

 

If you really want to impress your friends, see if you can't round someone up who thinks their Binelli is the shit. Feed yours non-recoil reduced slugs, and their's the same. That's what super-sold me on how great this gun is! I shot dude's "hot-shot" binelli and he shot my "russian toy" with those rounds and he hated himself for paying 3x the price for a beefier kick, less accuracy, and slower rate of fire. And you can bet your ass if you dragged that thing thru the mud, ran it over with a truck, and then submerged it that he'd be out a pretty penny while I'd be out a rag and some grease. God bless the AK. So simple any peon can pick it up and be lethal, but so reliable, durable, and fun. (just be careful with that damn bolt-assembly, I'm still embarassed I had such a tough time with it).

 

Have fun with it. Also, practice your reloads now. I embarassed myself when I was showing mine off when it took me 5 minutes to get the darn thing rocked into place.

[Bvamp 604]

shaneman: you can also take one of the markers I mentioned and remove the ink felt from it, and heat it and bend it at a 90 degree angle so that it will rest inside the chamber and also stick out the side of the breech. just show the range master what it is and how it works, and you should be ok. It aint pretty, but it works for next to nothing. when you first show up with the saiga12 and that thing, it will leave some funny impression on guys. watch the looks on thier faces change when you empty it out or after they shoot it. everybody is a knowitall in the gun community it seems, so you should expect them to think the gun is a piece of crap.

 

I have yet to clean the gas system on mine. I really should do it soon though, because im having a bitch of a time changing gas settings from what I think is a tremendous amount of buildup in there. the rest of the gun I just spray out with PB catalyst, then I cut it out with a dousing of wd40, then I drop oil on every joint and thats that. maybe I should scrub the thing out, huh? Im curious how much crap is going to appear on my drip towel when Im done. Probably quite a lot.

[G O B 3,516]

I like blowing old computers, microwaves ect. straight to hell! I have to drive quite a way to do it, but sometimes a man gotta do what a man gotta do! Years ago I used to shoot at gravel pits all over this area, now that would get a guy a ride to the greybar hotel! And don't feel bad about having trouble getting the bolt in the first time, hey the S-12 shoots a round that is not only more than double the diameter of a regular AK, but is rimmed to boot! One HELL of a piece of engineering!

 

G O B

[oak 3]

Amen!

[shaneman153a 39]

Oh lord,

 

I'll be shooting this bad boy in less than 10 hours, can't sleep! I found a range that is somewhat of a free-for-all. I called the guy and asked him right out if I could come there and shoot large fruit. He started laughing and told me if I shot them on the ground where he wanted them planted, I could do it. Then he thought twice and said "Hell, I may just come out and join ya' ".

 

Bvamp, that is a damn good idea with the marker, I'm gonna have to try that until I figure out my BHO situation.

 

Jeric, I may have to take you up on the BHO, but I'm real stubborn in my ways, and I'm trying to cook up a way to make it hold open after the last shot. I would love to have it set up like an M4 (AR), but that would take some serious ingenuity that I probably don't have.

 

GOB, I'm with you brother. Gravel pit shoot-outs are my MO. I'll find a way.........a country boy can survive.

 

BVAMP and aegisdei, I have yet to run in to too many "Gun snobs" here in TX. I've been doing most of my shooting on military installations, where most of the people know what it is you're shooting, and appreciate good engineering no matter what country it came from. Although, I did run into some douchebag a few weeks ago when I was shooting my PSL. The first thing he said to me is "That isn't a real Dragunov". I told him that I'm glad I knew that before I paid 700.00 and waited four months to get it. He told me it was made in china and inferior. (He was thinking of an NDM-86, an $1800 gun that is NOT inferior to the real SVD) I didn't tell him this of course.

 

Then he proceeded to tell me that I should've bought the real one because it "shoots much better" (I had a 3 shot group of 1.5 at the time), or I should've bought an M14 (M1A1) because it's the greatest "sniper rifle" ever. (To you M1A1 shooters, I'm not doggin' you, I love that gun, I just can't afford it). I told him that M1's were 1200-1600, and to get one of the 100 REAL dragunov's ever imported legally would cost 4500.00. This of course was not true, he had seen them at a gun show in Abilene for less than a grand. Then he said he saw them all the time in Iraq, and could've smuggled one, etc. etc.

 

Then we got on the topic of shotguns, and I told him I was looking for an S-12. He didn't know what it was of course, so I explained it. This guy was an instant expert on Saiga's after my one and a half minute sales pitch. After careful consideration of all the facts, especially price, this expert concluded "It's cheap, and would probably jam every other round". I swear to god this guy would argue anything, when I said "see ya later" he disagreed. (BTW here's what he had at the range, a Remington 710 .270 and a charter pup, all american baby)

 

There I went on another tangent and talked you're guys' heads off. Sorry, I get carried away. Thanks for listening fellas.

[shaneman153a 39]

Okay, dumb BHO question.... It's late and I'm thinking entirely too simple-minded-ly (That's not a word, but I made it work!) Has anyone tried cutting a U shaped notch in the top of the actual safety lever about 1 inch back? Theory being you could pull the bolt back, swing the safety lever up and have the actual bolt HANDLE catch the U. Then when re-loaded, flip the safety back down to F, and it would release the bolt. Am I overlooking something? (I must be) Has anyone tried this? I know it's just a quick-fix, temporary in nature, and butt-ugly, but what does that lever cost to replace? It's so stupid, it just may work.............

 

[stokstad 4]

Okay, dumb BHO question....  It's late and I'm thinking entirely too simple-minded-ly (That's not a word, but I made it work!)  Has anyone tried cutting a U shaped notch in the top of the actual safety lever about 1 inch back?  Theory being you could pull the bolt back, swing the safety lever up and have the actual bolt HANDLE catch the U.  Then when re-loaded, flip the safety back down to F, and it would release the bolt.  Am I overlooking something? (I must be)  Has anyone tried this?  I know it's just a quick-fix, temporary in nature, and butt-ugly, but what does that lever cost to replace?  It's so stupid, it just may work.............

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It has been done and works rather well I believe. Krebs or some place sells them if you want to pay for one. Otherwise notching your saftey lever yourself works just fine.

[Bvamp 604]

shaneman: one thing we like here is going off on tangents. no need to apologise or cut it short if you ahve something to say. hell, some of us (including myself) can get pretty damn evil about it too!

 

somehow Im sure you are going to miss the pic of the look on your face right after you empty it out the first time. its akin to a kid on christmas morning. you only need to describe the saiga12 as a "12 gauge ak47 made in russia". anyone that has something to say about it, well, they obviously dont know dick. when they are spouting thier bullshit, turn around and bump fire a clip of trap loads for them. it shuts even people from here up. some real hicks up near me, and I almost was tossed off someones property for having a "commie gun", so I said hold a sec, loaded up, and bump fired it. that ended the debate on what i was doing with it in a fairly quick fashion.

 

here, next time you see that knowitall one minded dude down your way, tell him about this:

 

I posted this on a thread here by itself, but in brief, I left ten year old rusted to hell duck shells of every type/make outside in 4F degree temperature when I was snow blowing my pop's driveway this past winter and seriously froze the shells down to a ridiculous temperature. when i say rusted up, i mean rusted to the point that some of the shells were missing parts of the brass etc etc, and there was everything from 3" slugs to old OLD 2 3/4" trap loads to #4 steels. I was in shock when the s12 not only fed, fired AND ejected all of the rounds except two that were almost missing hulls that I fed manually (both ejected fine). The gun was absolutely SPITTING chunks of shells out all over the place, much unburnt powder was in the bore and action after two sessions of 125 shots each. the magazine was taken apart and I dumped a small pile of metal chunks onto the garage floor, same with the action of the weapon. my moss500 and my rem 870 would not feed or eject these. the s12 was flawless. Ill never sell mine. I dont even shoot other shotguns I have anymore, let alone someone else's. heres a pic:

[Bvamp 604]

anyway, that experiment did it for me. the gun was frozen as well at the time, and I had the full intention of TRYING to jam the thing feeding it those shells. after seeing the gun do that, there is NOBODY that is going to tell me that another shotgun for any price is better than this one. I was actually shocked afterward.

[shaneman153a 39]

Okay, I've been trying to post this message all day, but it will not let me attach a pic, so...... The "Jihad bottle picture" will have to wait. (Read on)

 

Alright, just got back. Had some minor feed problems, but all in all, THIS GUN ROCKS! Here's my issue: When I tried to bump fire it, it wouldn't eject right, it would almost try to re-feed the old round. I thought at first maybe the gas wasn't sending the bolt back far enough, so I re-set the "gas-selector-thingy" to 2. (That's all I shot it on all day) Still no dice, but the first time I tried, it only got one round off, the second it got a two round burst, then jammed as explained above. Then I broke it down, oiled the bolt, especially on the bottom, put it in the truck and gave it a rest while we had a pistol shoot-out.

 

Then we came back and shot a box of skeet, (probably another 40-50 rounds through the saiga) then I attempted a bump fire again. I only had three rounds in, they all fired, then the bolt grabbed the last round on it's way out. I wish I had brought a digital camera so I could take pics of the jams, then send them in. My only logical explaination for this is that it's brand new, and the spring is stiff, not allowing the bolt to come all the way back. (Each time I tried it, it got better) But, it only jammed when I tried to bump it. What gives? I'm hoping this problem is just because it's new.

 

Normal rapid fire was just fine, the most fun I had was throwing a 5 gal. water bottle out there and doing a walking rapid fire, basically chasing the thing all over the range. My buddies thought this was hillarious. I basically declared a Jihad on that bottle. (see attached)

 

It was great for skeet, except every time I fired, I would immediately try to cycle the pump action that it doesn't have (Old habits). And, I kept saying "pull", they throw a clay, and I'd go "click", because I thought I had another round. (I'll have to start counting, but it's tough when you're having fun!) I really need something that will hold that bolt open on the last shot!

 

I didn't get a chance to shoot slugs, as this was a birdshot only range. But it still was a whole lot of fun, I'm glad I bought it. Now I just need to take it off some sweet jumps!

[shaneman153a 39]

No one has had this problem? No one has insight? Help!

[stokstad 4]

No one has had this problem?  No one has insight?  Help!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your picture problem is because the picture is too large you need to resize them so they can be attached.

 

As far as your ejection issues I would guess that its because it needs to be broken in. I think that usually cures most problems. Be happy I have heard of people haveing major ejection issues and ftf until the gun is completely broke in. I have a feeling there has been many an S12 traded in beause it wasnt broken in. Fire a few hundred rounds through her and see what happens then.

[shaneman153a 39]

Thanks stoks,

 

That was the reply I was hoping for. Of course, I could never convince my buddies of this, once they saw it jam once, it was a commie POS.

 

Me and some buddies met up at a gun shop yesterday before going out to the range. One of my friends wanted a shotgun, so I showed him the 1 saiga they had on the shelf. (The only one I could find in 20 gun shops within 2 hrs drive.) He told me he didn't need an auto, and bought a realtree camo moss 835 with the little night sights on it for 335.00. I just don't understand...........

[shaneman153a 39]

Ah, good deal, resize, duh!

 

Jihad hehe

[Bvamp 604]

I had stovepipe jams when trying to bump my s12 as well with light loads. I added weight to the gun by adding a wood stock to it, seemed to fix the problem with bumping for me. then again, i have quite a few thousand rounds down mine......