yodaman_84 0 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Help! I took out mt Saiga 223. today and shot maybe a 100 rounds through it, and it worked great. Towards the end of the day the trigger stopped reseting! It wouldn't reset and seemed really floppy. It did cycle because there was a round in the chamber after it fired, but when you pulled the trigger again nothing happened! I would pull the charging handle back maybe a 1/4 of an inch and the presto, it would fire the chambered round and then the trigger wouldnt reset again. I diassembled it, dropped some oil and it would fire two rounds and then start the whole thing with not reseting.....Please HELP! The rifle is less than a year old and probably has less than 1000 rounds through it. I'm not Saiga savy AT ALL, so I dont know much other than the basic part....(springs and stuff throw me for a loop). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Check for any burs on the trigger axis pin, and make certain the spring is in it's proper location. Look to see if the pin is trying to rotate when the trigger moves. A little sanding of the pin or sleeve and some lube should fix you right up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Are both tails of your hammer spring hooked over the back end of the trigger? EDIT: This is assuming the rifle is converted. If not, then it will be the back end of the sear lever, not the trigger. Edited March 6, 2011 by DrThunder88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Are both tails of your hammer spring hooked over the back end of the trigger? EDIT: This is assuming the rifle is converted. If not, then it will be the back end of the sear lever, not the trigger. The legs still could have slipped from their original location. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Thanks soooo much for your quick replies! Like I said Im still really new with Saiga's so thanks for bearing with me.... I do believe that the acces spin is not trying to move if Im correct. The manual isnt rto helpful but I believe that I am looking at the correct part. I am in California so my .223 is as stock as they come. I was only able to get one picture attached because of size….let me know if it helps or if there is a better way to get pics across Edited March 6, 2011 by yodaman_84 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Guys, I also wanted to add that when I cyclce the bolt by hand the trigger resets perfectly.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) When you shoot do you typically hold the trigger back and listen for the reset click as part of your follow-through? Edited March 7, 2011 by DrThunder88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 To be honest ...no. Is that messing things up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Guys, I also wanted to add that when I cycle the bolt by hand the trigger resets perfectly.... The mechanical functioning during a static situation (hand cycling) may not be the same during the dynamic situation (firing the firearm for real.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Could it possibley be due to bad greasing? Should I look into getting one of those thick lubes for the rifle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Function test 1) Field strip the rifle 2) Remove bolt carrier 3) Manually actuate the hammer back to the sear but do not engage it. Check to make sure there is spring tension. DO NOT LET GO OF HAMMER! Just check for smooth operation of the spring. Check to see if the hammer moves side to side. Gently let the hammer come up to rest. 4) Push down on the sear. Make sure the spring in loading and unloading. It should rock under pressure. 5) If both springs are working smoothly then manually bring the hammer back and lock it in. Check for alignment. Now the fun part. Put your thumb just over the hammer and be prepared to catch it coming up. You are going to gently pull the trigger and release the hammer. IF it releases with ease the FCG should be in working order. If not you should be able to see and feel where the catch/obstruction is coming from. As tritium posted this is not the same as the dynamic but it can provide clues to where the hang is. Let us know what you find.... I'm thinking it may be with the bolt. Is there a bullet guide? Does the bolt lock up easy or is it dragging? The recharging comment makes me suspect of the bolt and carrier. Or somehow the use of it releasing the bind and making the rifle operational again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) To be honest ...no. Is that messing things up Nah, it's just a nuance some shooters exhibit. My thought was that there may be a hangup on the disconnector from a prolonged hold. The hammer could still be getting stuck on the disconnector. If it passes the tests MSA put forth, I suggest: 1. With the bolt, carrier, and recoil spring in the rifle (but the dust cover removed), cock and dryfire the rifle but keep holding the trigger all the way back. 2. While still fully depressing the trigger, cycle the bolt. When the bolt locks back into battery, observe the position of the hammer. It should be held under the disconnector hook. 3. Gently release the trigger. The hammer should click as it switches from being held by the disconnector to being held by the sear. Here's a good pic of the internals. The "trigger hook" is the "sear" MSA and I are speaking of. Your rifle will have one hook/sear obviously, but the principle will be the same. Edited March 8, 2011 by DrThunder88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Guys, I will try all these WONDERFUL tips tomorrow 03/09/11. Its dark here no and I would like to do them in a brighter, well lit environment I will get back to you soon.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 OK...Ok...I think were on to something here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1. With the bolt, carrier, and recoil spring in the rifle (but the dust cover removed), cock and dryfire the rifle but keep holding the trigger all the way back. 2. While still fully depressing the trigger, cycle the bolt. When the bolt locks back into battery, observe the position of the hammer. It should be held under the disconnector hook. 3. Gently release the trigger. The hammer should click as it switches from being held by the disconnector to being held by the sear. When I do this the hammer does not switch to the trigger hook (sear?). It stays held down by the disconnector hook! Leaving a slight gap between hammer and trigger hook. And then when I gently tap the disconnector hook, it clicks and switches to being held down by the triiger hook. Then I can pull the trigger and it fires! WHATS NEXT? Also the is a spring wrapped around the "pin" directly above the trigger...its short on one side and long on the other and runs along the inside of the rifle ending near the spring that wraps around the pin that holds on the hammer....can that be any part of this? Any more pics would definitely help too!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 The long-tailed spring is just the retainer for the hammer pin and sear/disconnecter assembly pin (I think that's its only function). It looks like it's in the right place. Did you try MSA's tests to see if the sear/disconnector assembly is moving properly? With the hammer un-cocked you should be able to press down on the front of the sear and have it rock forward before returning under spring tension. Similarly, you should be able to rock the disconnector back before it returns under spring tension. Both the compression and the release should be smooth for both of those. If that's working, the next thing I'd check is the trigger linkage "wishbone": This is purely speculation, so I hope someone with an unconverted Saiga will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. With the hammer un-cocked, manually rock the sear/disconnector assembly forward and hold it there. The wishbone should then freely seesaw on its pin. It will be stopped at the extremes of its movement by the trigger and the sear, but it should not stick anywhere in between. The last thing I could think of is some sort of incidental problem with the disconnector or hammer geometry. Using your finger, feel for any irregularities on the mating surfaces of the hammer and disconnector. I imagine it would be a burr that would feel like a rough, raised ridge running across the end of the disconnector hook or at the extreme top edge of the hammer, but it could be something else interfering with the proper interaction between the two surfaces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks for your patience guys! OK...I did MSA's test 1-5 and the FCG seems to work. 1. With the bolt, carrier, and recoil spring in the rifle (but the dust cover removed), cock and dryfire the rifle but keep holding the trigger all the way back. 2. While still fully depressing the trigger, cycle the bolt. When the bolt locks back into battery, observe the position of the hammer. It should be held under the disconnector hook. 3. Gently release the trigger. The hammer should click as it switches from being held by the disconnector to being held by the sear. It doesn't do it right off the bat....I have to rock trigger back and fourth a few times with finger before it does swith from the disconnect to the trigger hook/sear. When I lock the hammer by with the bolt carrier with out holding trigger back it, it works great (Fires everytime).....but when I lock it back as I hold the trigger, it seems to get hung up on the disconnect. After a few times of rocking the trigger back and fourth with my finger, the disconnect allows the hammer slip from the disconnect and be "caught" by the trigger hook, then the next pull fires (or lets hammer go) HELP! Again thanks for ALLLL your and patience!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Can you guys guide me any farther based on what I replied? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm out of pocket will be back in a few hours and will follow up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thanks MSA!.. I actually cycled the bolt real hard a few times and It seemed to be working again THANK GOD! So I took it to the range and put maybe 50 rounds through it and it worked great! There was one time where it seemed like it wanted to stick but it didn't . The guy at the range (who is not a gunsmith) said it may just be that it is somewhat new and just breaking in ???? How true could that be? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks MSA!.. I actually cycled the bolt real hard a few times and It seemed to be working again THANK GOD! So I took it to the range and put maybe 50 rounds through it and it worked great! There was one time where it seemed like it wanted to stick but it didn't . The guy at the range (who is not a gunsmith) said it may just be that it is somewhat new and just breaking in ???? How true could that be? I'd probably look into getting your bolt and carrier worked over... polished and what not. Until a qualified Gunsmith can see it.... it's just a suggestion. I'm still thinking there is a friction/heat issue yet to be discovered. It is possible that it will wear in.... but at this point it's speculation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yodaman_84 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks MSA....I was gonna ask what specific areas I should get polished, but I just saw the video on your website. It looks like that one was polished. Funny that you said that, because last time and even today the frame of the rifle was hotter than normal. So much that it stood out. Thanks for everything guys! If your ever in So Cal email me and Lunch is on me! Plus you have a life buyer from your website! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CKinVA 1 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Geesh, my 12 ga Saiga (factory trigger group), just started doing this last outing I went on a couple of weeks ago. The gun is just over a year old now. I *might* have less than 300 rounds through it. Seems like ever since I replaced the front handguard, I've had some sort of cycling issues,,, including fte's. *sigh* My bolt and hammer face are polished, so drag isn't an issue. I don't what else to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dorky_D 8 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 I had a re-set isssue at the range last time. I had it yesterday too. I fugured out what it was. The main spring was getting in the way. The right hand leg (as you look down the sights) was jumping off the track and moving more center this was not allowing the trigger to re-set. The hamer was lockeddown, but not under the trigger hook. I am not sure how to fix it. It might mean I bend the main spring leg out a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Might it be possible to lightly lash or tie it to the trigger lever with some fine steel wire? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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