kelly 2 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hello I am Kelly and this is my first post. I finally got my long awaited saiga 12 yesterday for 679 thanks to cascade arms, a great local shop. I went ahead and did the conversion because I had the parts waiting. and i will certainly post pics soon. Conversion went smoothly and looks great however: Appears to only have 1 gas hole 100% exposed and a second one 50-75% exposed. No sign of a third hole however i did not dismantle gas block or barrel. I am really hoping that it cycles but thinking it will be unlikely. Planning on taking it out this afternoon after work. The other thing i noticed was that the forend screw was severely stripped and could not be tightened sufficiently. I picked up a screw today that I am hoping works . The gas knob came in position 2, if I turn towards position 1 it will not fully click into the notch (it doesn't quite have enough threads to make it there) does this mean that 1 is really almost a full rotation away from this and 2 after that or is this another common symptom of the vodka special. If my gun fails to cycle, i plan to try the low brass spring which I purchased. If it still fails to cycle what steps should I take to fix the gas holds, which i assume will be the problem. I really hope it works out. does anyone have any advice or words of wisdom for this situations. Thanks in advance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hi Kelly.... welcome to the forums! Unscrew the gas plug and look at the inside surface of it. You'll see that you can unscrew it back around to get the setting that you want. It's no problem that the plug bottoms out at some point between settings, totally normal. Absolutely run some rounds through the gun to test it out before making gas port changes. You may want to try the MD-Arms "Booster Puck" rather than a weaker recoil spring. Best of luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FORKLIFT352 63 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 If you have only have 2 gas ports I would think you will be under gassed. I had 3 ports and one was a little covered. It still wouldent do the 3 dram bird shot. My progreshen was as follows clean and polish bolt,cairer and rails. MD gas plug Drilled 2 of the 3 ports Drilled all 3 ports at the same time I reprofiled hammer. What I dident know at the time was I prob could have gotten away with grinding down the hammer a little at a time.Before drilling. I also knoked the gas block over a tad so all ports were free flowing....It all looked good and I have the chaos 4 rail so even if is was a little of you couldent tell. Now my S12 eats and spits out Fed bulk. Good luck and I hope I helped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Like spartacus said, spin your gas knob all the way in so it bottoms out, then back it out till it clicks completely in postion 1, thats your default setting. For break in you should use high brass. Most guns about 200 rounds should do it. Then try some low brass, if that gives you trouble, yea go with a booster puck, then try polishing the bolt. If none of those fix it, then you'll have to adress the port issue.(I'm guessing you'll have to do that anyway.) Good luck and welcome! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 The first thing I'd do if I were you is to get a bent paperclip or similar "tool", and probe the gas block to determine exactly how many unobstructed ports you've got, (field strip it so you can look down the barrel safely to see the tip of the tool passing from the block to the barrel). Because of the angle, it's tough to accurately "eyeball" this. You may have a port or two closer to the front of the block that you can't easily see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kelly 2 Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Great news, I did the paper clip gas port test and there are indeed three ports, two of them are just very difficult to see. I took it out this evening and had great success with walmart federal and remington bulk packs. The winchester often FTE'd. With the low brass spring I had 99% success with these two brands, with the stock spring, probably about 60% success so I am quite satisfied. This is all on setting two, I had no luck with low brass on setting one and have not tried high brass yet. The forend screw replacement also worked perfectly so I am quite satisfied with my purchase. Thanks for the great advice and i wont be a stranger! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) Ah ha.. your gun came just like mine then: 3 ports, 2 positioned forward and extremely difficult to see, but present and functional. I'm glad to hear she's runnin well for ya My advice is to just run the "good" cheap birdshot, (Federal, Remington, Estate, etc). Fuck Winchester Universal unless you've got a gun that's tuned to run it. Shit doesn't even cost any less, so it's more for bragging rights, "look my gun cycles Win Uni, woohoo", than anything practical. Edited May 7, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FORKLIFT352 63 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 good to hear it all worked out.... I was going to go with the springs.But I wanted to keep the gun ready for slug and buck. I don't want 3 min or more work when seconds count. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kelly 2 Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Yeah, I mean of course it would feel good to have a gun that runs every type of ammo perfectly all of the time but just not realistic. and like your saying why bother with it when its not even cheaper than walmart fed. I hear what your sayin too forklift I am only using the spring because it was how i achieved very low to no FTE's which I like alot : ) not too enthused to have to change springs to shoot buck or slugs but I bet once i get a polish job and get her broken in she'll run all of the stuff on the stock spring. I plan on changing back to it with bulk bird periodically to find out. Thanks again you guys are a great help. I probably wouldn't have taken on the conversion myself without this forum. Cant wait to shoot some more! -Kelly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) Yeah, I mean of course it would feel good to have a gun that runs every type of ammo perfectly all of the time but just not realistic... Oh, it's definitely realistic, but it costs. Looking at your S-12, I'm torn by what advice to give. If you don't have personal soldering/welding skills/equipment, (I don't, yet), and want to install better irons yourself, I recommend the Krebs Saiga-12 "combat sights", (or the Chaos Titan with Chaos H&K style irons, if you don't mind the extra weight). If you can weld/solder yourself, I recommend installing some H&K iron sights. If not, and you have some $ to spend, have a professional solder them on if possible. Welding works also, but stresses the surrounding steel more. Sights go a long way, but I s'pose reliable cycling is more important.. I've grown used to taking that as a given, on my gun. Anyway, I recommend sending your bolt, bolt carrier, and trigger group to either Pauly or Cobra for professional reprofiling and polishing where it really counts. Since you have 3 unobstructed ports, that work alone will likely get your gun to cycle even Winchester Universal garbage birdshot. If you don't mind paying a true professional for absolute reliability and enhanced weapon function as a whole, call Mike Rogers at Lone Star Arms. He sells the "total solution". Edited May 7, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Look my gun cycles Win Uni woohoo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSLzAL1HFE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jcmacconnell 25 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Kelly. If you mean cascade arms in Lacey wa. Let me know if you need any help with your gun. I'm in the area and have been working S12s for about 3 years. Good luck man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Look my gun cycles Win Uni woohoo! Smartass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 If you want a challenge, buy the Federal blue box 1 ounce 8 shot. It's $4.67 per box from walmart. If you can cycle that 100% I'd say you get bragging rights. I may try it tomorrow. I've already run 100 rounds of the 6 shot stuff without a hiccup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 If you want a challenge, buy the Federal blue box 1 ounce 8 shot. It's $4.67 per box from walmart. If you can cycle that 100% I'd say you get bragging rights. I may try it tomorrow. I've already run 100 rounds of the 6 shot stuff without a hiccup. Challenge? That Federal "blue box" is what they call "Game Load". I buy individual boxes of that instead of the bulk packs because it's cheaper. I shoot that shit every time I go out. No hiccups, no problems, for years. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 If you want a challenge, buy the Federal blue box 1 ounce 8 shot. It's $4.67 per box from walmart. If you can cycle that 100% I'd say you get bragging rights. I may try it tomorrow. I've already run 100 rounds of the 6 shot stuff without a hiccup. Challenge? That Federal "blue box" is what they call "Game Load". I buy individual boxes of that instead of the bulk packs because it's cheaper. I shoot that shit every time I go out. No hiccups, no problems, for years. In that case, try the 1180 fps 8 shot winchester white box. That's the weakest birdshot I'm aware of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 If you want a challenge, buy the Federal blue box 1 ounce 8 shot. It's $4.67 per box from walmart. If you can cycle that 100% I'd say you get bragging rights. I may try it tomorrow. I've already run 100 rounds of the 6 shot stuff without a hiccup. Challenge? That Federal "blue box" is what they call "Game Load". I buy individual boxes of that instead of the bulk packs because it's cheaper. I shoot that shit every time I go out. No hiccups, no problems, for years. In that case, try the 1180 fps 8 shot winchester white box. That's the weakest birdshot I'm aware of. If I must. If I get some video of my S-12 cycling that shit will you believe me that there's no 12-ga shell my gun won't cycle, (except for the non-lethal beanbags etc that no semi-auto will cycle)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I wasn't referring to you in specific. I was just saying in general those were pretty much the weakest loads I was aware of, so if you're gun can run them, it's running pretty well. Although as you've already stated, being able to run anything less than the Federal bulk pack is for nothing other than bragging rights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kelly 2 Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I may get my bolt polished just for the novelty and "looks" value, but honestly I am quite happy with the gun. I will be 100% satisfied if it will some day shoot federal bulk with the stock spring so that I dont have to switch springs to shoot some high brass loads, of course i'm sure the bolt polish job may help there. I definitely plan to mess around with different options though. maybe a galil handguard and a folding stock, some sort of aftermarket sights or maybe a cobra. Most of all I just wish i lived in a SBS state, but we cant have everything : P. And yes I am talking about cascade in Lacey WA, great guys, great shop and I may be in touch with you if I have any questions. Took her out again today, two hundred more rounds down the pipe and loving the saiga world : ) here's a video of me dumping 10 as fast as possible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erwos 12 Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) Glad to hear things are working well, Kelly. Who's the importer on your gun? Is it a Mercury-Hermes "Legion" model or something else? Mine is supposedly coming in this week, and I'm curious whether I can hope it actually has all three holes drilled properly. Also, loving that video! Edited May 8, 2011 by erwos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kelly 2 Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Yes it is a legion. Stamp reads: Legion USA INC Hallandale Beach, FL It also has the covered up (I assume RAAC) import stamp thats about .5" x 1.5" of a rough grinded rectangle painted over, which I understand alot of people dont like. Doesn't really bother me as I am just relieved that the 3 holes are there : ). From what I have heard from various research it seems that izhmash has somewhat stepped their quality up, that's why I was so bummed when at first I only saw one hole and part of another. the bent paperclip test quickly yielded 3 holes. I question I have for anyone still reading this thread, does the importer stamp "SAIGA 12" on the right side of the gun or does Izhmash? Purely curiosity. Glad you like the video erwos! I was sure having fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Challenge? That Federal "blue box" is what they call "Game Load". I buy individual boxes of that instead of the bulk packs because it's cheaper. I shoot that shit every time I go out. No hiccups, no problems, for years. +1. That's all I buy anymore. It's a couple bucks cheaper than bulk and cycles 100%. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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