lcswj 0 Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Would also like to see pics of the carnage. Was this with a light recoil spring by chance in addition to the wrong gas setting? Sorry i missed ur question. I didn't see until just now. Sorry no pictures but it was pretty nasty. I had the factory gas plug set on setting #2 and the springs were all factory origina. Just the wrong setting on the factory configuration. Shooting slugs on setting #2 is a bad idea. Mine lasted maybe 10 rounds but it was when i was shooting bulk ammo that it finally imploded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ned Beatty 39 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Im thinking the issue was the original failure that didn't involve the op rod, but the carrier. Can you rule out that during welding that the carrier didn't twist from the heat and make the op rod crooked? Also a reason why slack may have been left in the assembly, possible for a reason? Frankly, if the carrier itself was cracking where the op rod attached, I wouldnt be dicking around with trying and rewelding what may end up a softened part, causing the new pieces, which are stronger, to induce another failure in a welded area. You can feel free to have two pounds of steel recoiling near your face shot after shot, if it were mine, and my personal safety, I think with all my welding tools, I would still opt for new parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 If there is a weak point in the S-12, the op-rod is it. So if one removes the weak link of the Op-rod, the next thing that becomes the next weak link is the thin part of the carrier shaft, right? IMHO, Tuning the gun to a good balance is the best bet. Pretty much. The tapered openning where the op rod threads in seems really prone to cracking and chipping especially if there is some side to side movement of the op rod. So if the op rod has some wiggle to it, it gets torqued in the threads since the rod isnt tight to start with. So the openning where the rod threads in absorbs a lot of that energy and there just isnt enough mass there to take the energy so it gives. Mine cracked in a manner that followed the threads almost 2 full turns. About the first quarter turn was broken completely off the carrier never to be seen again. This meant that the new rod was going to be threaded into a hole that was both enlarged a little at the mouth of the threads and now shallower because I ended up losing 2 rows of threads. What I did was weld up the front of the carrier with TIG welding rod, ground it, filed it, polished back to spec leaving the front of the carrier a little thicker. Havent shot it yet, but i'm optimistic. The TIG welding rod should be at least as strong if not stronger than the carrier itself. I hope. We'll see. wont know until i can shoot it this weekend. Its killing me to see if this thing will hold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 If there is a weak point in the S-12, the op-rod is it. So if one removes the weak link of the Op-rod, the next thing that becomes the next weak link is the thin part of the carrier shaft, right? IMHO, Tuning the gun to a good balance is the best bet. Yep, I hear ya Pauly.... we'll have to see over time how the guns with the HD op-rods hold up. Haven't had any range time to beat on mine yet. To my way of thinking though, you fix an obvious weak link and then move on to the next thing as needed. I really hope that as lcswj said, the stresses on the thin part of the carrier shaft (from the play in the op-rod) will no longer be a problem with a drilled & pinned new HD rod. Hopefully the impact will all be transmitted straight through the rod/carrier joint and the thin part won't see enough stess to crack it any more. Time will tell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Okay, more on the op rod saga. Went and fired my S12 with the new Tom Cole op rod in place. I have included a few pics that I hope will be somewhat visible. I drilled a hole for the cross pin, threaded in the new rod and installed the pin. To be honest, I didnt like the fit, (had a little bit of play that i attribute to an enlarging of the threaded hole on the carrier) so i elected to go ahead and silver braze the rod once it was pinned. Probably overkill but thats what i ended up doing. Here's the set up. New rod was ground down by 3/32 of an inch as didcussed earlier, has a Tapco puck (piston or whatever u want to call it), also used was a Gunfixer Gas Plug. See the attached pictures. Btw, have never posted pictures before and am not sure how to post them in a sequence as I am writing so bare with me. With gas plug set on setting 1, the smallest apeture for high brass shells, i started on with Remington 2 3/4 in 00 buck with 12 pellets. Loaded up 5 shells in the magazine, first four rounds all looking good but recoil seeming a little more heavy than ususal. On the 5th round, gun goes click instead of boom. I'm thinking this cannot be good. Upon disassembly I discover the op rod and carrier look great. All intact at the carrier/op rod. Brazing held up good, sigh of relief. Took the bolt apart to discover the firing pin had broken right at the shoulder. The interior and exterior of the bolt looked intact with no unusual markings, gouges, scrapes, chips, etc. I never did find the broken piece of firing pin as I was shooting on grass. So I'm thinking WTF! I went back over my measurements, examined the carrier and trunnion, etc. and did notice a nice little shiney spot on the back right hand side of the carrier with a corresponding shiney mark on the rear trunnion in the same location. Conclusion, carrier smacked the crap out of the rear trunnion. Recoil did seem heavier than usual while firing. But heavy enough to break the firing pin through inertia? if so that is some serious forces at work. If that were the case, my op rod must still be a bit long? I have had the Gunfixer Plug on the gun for some time and never seemed to have any real problem with it over gasing (at least as best as I can tell). How prone to breaking are firing pins? I've never broke a firing pin before in anything for that matter. Anyone with a theory? I have concluded, however, that the beefed up op rod is a good addition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Here are a couple more pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I know Tromix makes a heavy duty firing pin. I think CSS carries them. That couldn't hurt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's that Murphy prick again! I'm thinking the firing pin was already damaged/cracked from when the op rod went kabloowie and now it just fell apart. Pretty wild to have a failure within 5 rounds of the last failure though. There was a rash of broken pins a while back, but not so much lately. As Corbin said, get a Tromix HD firing pin and you're good to go again. Look at it this way, you are getting all of the failures out of the way all at once. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's that Murphy prick again! I'm thinking the firing pin was already damaged/cracked from when the op rod went kabloowie and now it just fell apart. Pretty wild to have a failure within 5 rounds of the last failure though. There was a rash of broken pins a while back, but not so much lately. As Corbin said, get a Tromix HD firing pin and you're good to go again. Look at it this way, you are getting all of the failures out of the way all at once. Sounds like the carrier and firing pin were hardened in the same (flawed) batch! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hey thanks for the info. I was hoping that was the case. Just ordered one fm CSS. That Tromix pin does look a little more robust. Those folks are going to owe me a t-shirt before long. Everyone has been a big help and your input has been much appreciated. Thanks again. I'll post another update when the pin comes in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Okay i noticed something else about this thing. It seems like every time I look at it I notice something else. I noticed something about the side gas vent that bleeds off excess gas. I noticed that the puck covers the gas vent when it is in its most forward position as it is striking the op rod. Meaning at the pucks most forward travel, the gas vent that is supposed to prevent over gassing is still covered by the puck. How in the hell is the over gassing supposed to be properly vented if the the vent hole is covered by the puck? The gas vent is drilled pretty close to the end of the gas block and is easily covered by the puck. Shouldn't the puck leave the vent exposed when it has travelled to its most forward position to let excess gas be bled off? If it can't be bled off, what is the point of having it? There has to be a small enough gap around the circumference of the puck to provide a good "seal" but also allow freedom of movement. I don't see how there would be enough gas to seep around the sides of the plug to be adequately bled off preventing an over gassing situation. Assuming this is the case i.e. that the gas vent is blocked and therefore useless, does this mean that i would have have to drill another one just barely above the puck when it is in its most forward position? Again, WTF? Confounded Russians! Edited May 23, 2011 by lcswj Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 You should be able to look through that hole and see the end of the op rod covering the hole, and stopping just forward of it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 Final follow up. Took my S12 to the range today with 00 Buck 12 pellet 2 3/4" and Remington bulk 3 Dram 7.5 shot aka "Walmart Specials". Put 15 rds of 00 Buck and 75 rds of Walmart's finest. Tom Cole op rod and Gunfixer gas plug as stated earlier, also installed a Tromix firing pin and spring. She ran like a sowing machine. No malfunctions, no hiccups, just ran like a beast. Double taps with the 00Buck, no problem. Double taps with Walmart's finest also no problem, spit'em out by the box full as hard as I could hit the trigger. Carrier and rod look good and are rock solid. The heavy duty Tom Cole op rod is a winner. Can definitely recommend one. The Tromix firing pin is a winner as well. The Tromix pin is thicker and the spring is a lot stiffer. The combo of the two seem to really work well. Thanks to all who made this project have a happy ending. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 Good to hear! NOW it's a trustworthy gun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrslayer001 0 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hi I'm having an issue with my Saiga 12 I have a Sporting shotgun unconverted with 19" the problem is where the piston threads into the bolt Carrierits cracked about where the Tapped tread would stop friend of mine emailed you maybe about 6 months ago and said that Cobra Customs would be able to Doll a Brass piston and reweld the piston to the carrier And that the price $120 Quicks questions 1st Is this info accurate? 2nd Question is is it better to have the Brass piston or to buy another Heavy Duty Piston that Ive seen online 3rd has anyone ever contacted someone about CNCing these? I would like to Carrier & Piston repaired but I have Concerns and want it done right since its an unreplaceable part A friend had the Same issue and welded it himself I Would rather have a Professional repair this I love my Saiga its one of my favorite long Guns and Makes shooting trap very Fun Please respond Back to me with Shipping & Billing Information I am very motivated to get this fixed "...Shall Not Infinge" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 mrslayer001: send him a pm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 RnR Targets now makes aftermarket carriers for the S12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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