hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 hey guys I was around here for a while but have been caught up in a bunch of other stuff lately and haven't had the time to show my saiga the appropriate amount of love. while cleaning my converted 7.62 after a day shooting i realized that my rear sight leaf does not fit snugly in the rear sight block. The right of the sight is pushed hard against the trunnion on the right side but i can push it probably 1-2mm to left hand side. as soon as i let it go it snaps right back to right hand side right up against the cut out of the trunnion. my question is is this supposed to be a snug fit? meaning when the rear sight is down in the normal friring position shouldn't it be just barely making contact with each wall of the cutout in the trunnion for the leaf to ride in? it seems like this would destroy accuracy, never shooting at paper targets much it doesn'tt seem like it has...i zeroed it with 20 rnds which seemed to be consistent but since then I've just been doing the 25-100yrd soda bottle game.. athough fun it doesn't really tell me if my left to right is staying at zero all that well. could some people show some pics of the way their sight leaves sit in the trunnion to maybe put my head at ease??? thanks, hutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 I have just noticed this exact same issue with my 5.45. ! I was going to post a thread myself if I couldn't find one on the topic. This is definately an accuracy issue, I am just glad things aren't canted like my Draco. Wish I had the answer for you, but at least you know you are not alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 The sights on an AK were never the best obviously. The rifle was intended, like the M16, for full auto tactics not precision. Krebs make a good replacement thats an aperture and retains the range function, seemed to fit tighter also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 The sight leaf spring usually does a pretty good job keeping it where it needs to be. If you find you are having a wandering zero then replace the sight and hope for a better fit next time. The "ears" holding the sight in can also be slightly out of round and not seated. As can the posts on the sight itself. Both cause canting. Some of my guns have wiggle, most do not, they all shoot within the same tolerances. I did notice the 5.45 Saiga has more play than any of my other AKs but I had already replaced the factory sight with a Bulgarian at that point. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) Here is what It looks like. Were yours as bad as this? I can move the actual notched sighting section of leaf about 1/8th inch to left. Edited September 8, 2011 by hutchsaiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I had a sight do this once but it would flop vertically from recoil, a MOJO sight. Sent it back no problems afterwards. Either the leaf spring underneath is sprung not putting enough force on the end of the sight to hold it or its not seated fully or both. The ears could be too small or too large causing the seating issue. Hard to say more. Look closely at those. Edited September 9, 2011 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Looks like it was dropped on the sight. Just squeeze the metal where the pivot pin goes thru. Pliers or a vise grip - careful not to bugger the finish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) It's never been dropped in my possession. The part of the trunnion that houses the pivot for the leaf is pretty tight. It's just the sight seems it's supposed to be tightly contained in the half inch section towered the butt of the pivot. It's pressed against the right side but I can push to left in the space you see in the picture. I guess I could squeeze that section with a vice to try to take away that gap shown in the picture Edited September 9, 2011 by hutchsaiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I had a sight do this once but it would flop vertically from recoil, a MOJO sight. Sent it back no problems afterwards. Either the leaf spring underneath is sprung not putting enough force on the end of the sight to hold it or its not seated fully or both. The ears could be too small or too large causing the seating issue. Hard to say more. Look closely at those. Gotta love MOJO and their warranty. Just ordered a Micro-click for my Saiga, and have one on my Mosin and SKS already. Talk about an improvement. I highly recommend them as an upgrade. I had "rear sight floppage" on my SKS, and simply used a C-clamp to compress the ears with the sight removed. These sights are not machined to tight tolerances like an M1, so some can be out up to .005" or more. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Thanks for help guys. Should I squeeze with a vice where the actual pivot point for the leaf is or try to bend the the section I show in the picture in a little? It seems that the section were the gap actually is would be pretty hard to bend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Dont bend anything please. There is a spring under that sight that may be loose and only that can bent very carefully upwards to increase pressure on the sight. Bending anything else is going to be cause for regret. Remove the sight and see whats happening. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 It's not that spring pressure is not strong enough. It's quite strong actually. It's that the sides of the notch in the trunnion which holds the sight leaf from left and right movement seems to be to wide for the sight and it is pressed up against the right side of said notch. The gap circled in this photo does not exist on the opposite side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) It's not that spring pressure is not strong enough. It's quite strong actually. It's that the sides of the notch in the trunnion which holds the sight leaf from left and right movement seems to be to wide for the sight and it is pressed up against the right side of said notch. The gap circled in this photo does not exist on the opposite side. I just grabbed my Saiga, and it looks like you have bad machining on your trunnion holes. I'm snapping pics now of mine for comparison. EDIT: OK....here's mine. I tried, and my sight has no side-to-side play at all. Edited September 11, 2011 by Lone Eagle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Thanks for the pics eagle. That's just what I was afraid of. This rifle aready went back for warranty work but afraid that has long run out. Damn. Any suggestions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 May have to have a smith weld/redrill the holes. Only other option would be replace the trunnion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Mine was definatly put together(sights were horribly canted, worse than wasr canted) and trunnions were milled by some drunk Russian. This bites Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Here are a few more Pics to show the movement. First tel are were it sits normally. Third and fourth are pushed over to show the movement Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Just me, but... If it doesn't affect accuracy, it doesn't fall out and it has to be physically moved, why bother? Mine wiggles a good bit too if I make it, but it still hits Minute of Man at 300yards. Its a AK, loose tolerances abound. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stnls1911 55 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Mine wiggles a good bit too if I make it My factory sight had a little side to side play. I never worried about it. but it still hits Minute of Man at 300yards. Minute of Man instead of Minute of Angle, awesome saying Chile!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Minute of Man instead of Minute of Angle, awesome saying Chile!! We've steel human silhouettes at our range, set at 100, 200 & 300 yards, ain't picky about exactly where I'm hitting'em, as long as I'm hitting'em. Had a AK naysayer at the range one day, talking about how inaccurate the AK is. I told him it is just as accurate as any other MBR, and proceeded to ring 300 yard steel offhanded. He shutup. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stnls1911 55 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 We've steel human silhouettes at our range, set at 100, 200 & 300 yards, ain't picky about exactly where I'm hitting'em, as long as I'm hitting'em. Had a AK naysayer at the range one day, talking about how inaccurate the AK is. I told him it is just as accurate as any other MBR, and proceeded to ring 300 yard steel offhanded. He shutup. Very nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Minute of Man? Here, we say "Minute of Dead". Here are a few more Pics to show the movement. First tel are were it sits normally. Third and fourth are pushed over to show the movement Hmmm.....your sight only goes to 300 meters? Look at mine again. Mine goes to 1K meters. Might want to try ordering another sight before modifying the trunnion. Give me a couple of days, and I'll hit my rear sight pins with the calipers. Got a Mojo on the way, and installing it as soon as it arrives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Thanks for your help eagle. If you wouldn't mind getting a set of calipers around yours. If it the slightest bit wider than mine, maybe we could work something out for it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 My god the simplicity of it makes me want to slap myself. They put the wrong sight on your rifle, or a one out of spec, it is narrower than the others judging from the fit of the ears. Well paint my face stupid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 My god the simplicity of it makes me want to slap myself. They put the wrong sight on your rifle, or a one out of spec, it is narrower than the others judging from the fit of the ears. Well paint my face stupid. I hope you're being sarcastic? Cause thats the same rear sight leaf as on my rifle, and all the rest that I've seen. I'm sitting here eyeballing his pic and my 762, and any difference is about indiscernible between the sights. If anything is out of spec, it maybe that the base's left wall was milled a bit thin. Some actual measurements are perhaps in order, for comparison? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 My god the simplicity of it makes me want to slap myself. They put the wrong sight on your rifle, or a one out of spec, it is narrower than the others judging from the fit of the ears. Well paint my face stupid. I hope you're being sarcastic? Cause thats the same rear sight leaf as on my rifle, and all the rest that I've seen. I'm sitting here eyeballing his pic and my 762, and any difference is about indiscernible between the sights. If anything is out of spec, it maybe that the base's left wall was milled a bit thin. Some actual measurements are perhaps in order, for comparison? Pretty much yeah, shouldn't drink and post. The first pic looks odd but his second ones clear it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Upon further inspection chilie Is definatly right. The left side was milled to about half thickness of the right. What's the sight leaf made of? Could I take it out add a little weld in that one spot on very very low heat and file to a snug fit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Just me, but... If it doesn't affect accuracy, it doesn't fall out and it has to be physically moved, why bother? Its a AK, loose tolerances abound. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Ya I hear ya. Just piece of mind I guess. Just me, but... If it doesn't affect accuracy, it doesn't fall out and it has to be physically moved, why bother? Its a AK, loose tolerances abound. Edited September 11, 2011 by hutchsaiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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