Sunset_Va 2 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I have read of many owners finding their Saiga's already threaded under the factory front sight shroud. Has anyone found this to be the case for the 20" bbl models in 223? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alexc.s. 25 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 None of the .223 are threaded, or at least no one has ever reported one threaded. Mine wasn't. However if it's one of the very new ones you can never be sure, the factory likes to keep changing little things. I'd still put money on it not having threads though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) It is not threaded and , most importantly , the barrel has a .591" diameter . What that means is that in order to thread it , you would need a special tool to reduce the barrel to a lesser diameter so it can be then , threaded to a normal 14 to 1 left thread . Dinzag sells this special tool , which cost around $100.00 . I threaded mine . If you don`t know enough (because it is tricky thing to do ), I recommend taking the rifle to a gunsmith . I don`t know if front sights with the muzzle thread attached for the .591" barrel can be found , but if not, in order to replace and install a normal , regular .571" diameter front sight with muzzle attached you will also have to reduce the barrel , anyway . Perhaps I am assuming too much in assuring that all 20" .223s are like that , but mine is and it was made in 2006 , so maybe you are lucky , but I doubt it . In any case , besides this small problem , I am glad I got the thicker barrel because they shoot much better . Edited September 22, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 i know my 2006 20" barrel is the thicker. I dont know if all are though. I found a modified FSB w 24mm threads @ dinzagarms.com . I just looked at his site and did not see any for the larger though. he may be able to produce on for you if you email him. if the outer diameter is .591, the barrel will need to be reduced in diameter to fit a 14x1 on it to begin threading. another "feature" my barrel has under the FSB is a slight flange expansion near the rear of the FSB where it continued causing the FSB to canter as it was driven on. It had to be installed a few times before noticing the flange too. so thats something to check for if you remove the block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Mine doesn`t have any flange expansion . Dinzag doesn`t have the thicker .591" FSB ... only the .571" type , so the barrel will have to be reduced either to install a FSB or to be threaded directly, which is what I did . Since you have that " expansion" , I would try to thread the barrel and not to try to remove the FSB . Just thread the barrel , either reducing it with the tool provided by Dinzag , or take it to a gunsmith .and have it threaded correctly . Since you would be threading the front part of the barrel only without removing the original FSB , the "expansion" problem would not matter. Thinking out loud, it would not be that difficult to do .... You will need the cutting tool , the .223 Die guide and the 14 to 1 left thread Die . The .223 guide you will use it to guide both the cutting tool and the 14 to 1 left thread Die . Dinzag can provide them . No big deal, really , if you are handy and careful . This way you save the gunsmith and keep the tools . Edited September 23, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 mine was not a problem, once the flange was detected. was just odd that it kept canting it at the last moment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sunset_Va 2 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) All this information is good and I really appreciate it. However I am about to puke. Just purchased a Vortex Flash Hider for 14x1LH , thought I would try threading the barrel myself, and some of you have said the newer barrels are larger @ .591 which makes it both more difficult and more expensive...rats...guess in the morning I will measure my barrel and see what I have. Had even thought about purchasing a complete front sight block with the 24mm threads, and buying a 14x1 thread adapter... I thought I got a good deal some years back having a local machine shop turn a Saiga 308 barrel down for me in order to attach another Vortex with set screws...@$75, I just don't even want to do that again, sigh ,sigh, sigh........ Anyways thanks to all for answering , a fool and his money are soon parted...If anyone has any other suggestions please keep posting.. This is a new rifle... NOTE: Just measured the barrel right behind the FSB, with my dial caliper it measured.... .640"? Edited September 23, 2011 by Sunset_Va Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 larger @ .591 ... Had even thought about purchasing a complete front sight block with the 24mm threads, and buying a 14x1 thread adapter... NOTE: Just measured the barrel right behind the FSB, with my dial caliper it measured.... .640"? we are referring to 20" barrels being thicker. not all of them are. i am not familiar with any 16" barrels being thicker. you measure at the front of the barrel at the FSB, not the rear. to buy a 24mm FSB then add a step down will not only lengthen the barrel more, but will be a redundant waste. if you want 14mm threading, you will be best off cutting the shroud back and threading. if you want a clean FSB, (that doesnt have the shroud cut); you could get a Romanian FSB which doesnt have threading and should fit the smaller barrels without modification. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sunset_Va 2 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I should have done more research and measuring before purchasing the Vortex..I had figured a simple end of barrel threading, not having to turn the barrel down. I looked at Dinzag's site at the tools mentioned, in the end , about the same cost in the end as taking it to a machine shop/gunsmith, and like some one said, I keep the tools...however it's adding to the cost of this, more than I had envisioned. I appreciate all the input from the forum members.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) The problem with taking it to a gunsmith is that most likely he will tell you that he has to separate the barrel from the trunnion/receiver to mount it on the lathe... that is going to cost you a bundle . There is really no way around it ... if you want to install a muzzle brake on a .591" barrel , you will have to reduce the barrel . There are no romanian FSBs that will fit ; only for .571" barrels. So, since you have to reduce the barrel anyway no matter what , I would just buy the tools , reduce and thread the damn thing without touching the FSB , just taking out the shroud (carefully) and would keep the tools and be happy . The tools will cost you around $150.00 plus the muzzle brake . I am suggesting only the threading because of complications with "flange expansion" , etc if attempting to replace the FSB , that will also add to the cost of the operation , since you will need to buy it . In my case , because I only threaded the barrel (I did not want the complications of sighting the FSB, etc etc ) and wanted a bayo lug, I installed a bayo adapter from a AR . With the barrel at 20" length , the bayo adapter looks ok . The barrel now has a "machine gun" kind of look ... I like it . Here are a couple of pics of mine with and without the bayonet : Edited September 23, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 another option is to buy a FSB and have someone use a mill to hone out the inner diameter to fit the larger size. that could be cheaper in the long run also. lots of folks here on the board have mills. this could still be cheaper than a turn down. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 That is really a great option , Greg ... I must be getting stupid in my old age , because it never ocurred to me to do just that , but I was very concerned from the beginning with the sighting accuracy of the sight, so I checked the sights with my laser boresight and it was perfect ... the front sight was right on with the laser , so I decided not to screw with it and went on to just thread the barrel . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sunset_Va 2 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) I know that this is perhaps the most discussed topic in the Saiga forums, perhaps, not only for the 223's but all the Saiga platforms.. At this point not sure which route I will take, I had planned on shortening the barrel to 18", and going from there.... The option of buying a threaded Front Sight Block and have it opened up to match the diameter of the barrel sounds best to me if it can be done. Not sure the ID of any of those sight blocks and if they can be safely opened up that much. That way it eliminates the threading and milling the barrel process, but still leaves me with a 22mm/24mm thread, which sends me back to using the 24mm to 14x1LH thread adapter, which does not bother me. Anyone know the ID of those sight blocks and how thick the shroud is? I do not plan on converting my sporter Saiga to the pistol grip, however I am converting the hand guards to AK style. Edited September 23, 2011 by Sunset_Va Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Not sure the ID of any of those sight blocks .... the 24mm to 14x1LH thread adapter, which does not bother me. i think the one i got from dinzag was a modified blackthorn FSB. a bulgarian is the same thickness and would work also. as far a i know, that adapter does not exist, but i could be wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) If you modify a FSB (if it can be done) you won`t need an adaptor because the threaded front of the FSB is 24mm RH , so you just get an AK74 muzzle brake and screw it in . You use the adaptor 14 to1 LH / 24mm RH (cost is $9.95) only when you thread the barrel and want to install a 24 mm brake . I am thinking that perhaps that option of milling the FSB to a bigger ID is going to be more complicated that it looks . And lets not forget the issue of having to take out the factory FSB ... In my humble opinion , reducing the barrel is the cheapest, less complicated and straight forward solution ... no dealing with FSB disassembling , no FSB re-sighting exactly right on windage and height (pain in the ass) , just taking out the shroud, reducing the barrel with the special tool and then threading the barrel . Finally, using the 14 to 1 to 24 mm adaptor to install a nice AK74... Voila, you are done . Edited September 23, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ignaciom184 0 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I'm guessing everyone is having the same issues with the saiga 223 (20" barrel). I get significant kick and barrel rise from my saiga. I been thinking of installing a muzzle brake w. 1/2x28 threading (more options available for 223). Now that I have read above it does not sound complicated at all, but anybody have the tools for renting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 hey check this out. if you want one without threads. k-var list this as an inner diameter of .590 http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16354&cat=290&page=1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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