thumbs1 1 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 I just put a Bushnell TRS-25 on my Saiga. I just got the rifle a week or so ago. I took her to the range and got the iron sights right on the money. She shoots great. I picked up the red dot today. I am using the side mount on the rifle and a UTG side mount bracket. When I put the red dot on the dot is high and to the left of the front iron sight. The dot sits above the left protecting post for the sight. I have not shot the rifle since I put the red dot on but it seems to me the dot should be pretty darn close to the front sight pin. Is the dot supposed to sit on the front sight or is there a problem somewhere? thanks for the help Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Shoot... Adjust sight for point of impact... Repeat... Its called sighting in. The RDS is mounted on a side rail mount? Many side rail mounts are not centered above the bore, they're slightly off to the left. Edited October 23, 2011 by ChileRelleno 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thumbs1 1 Posted October 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah thanks LOL I've sighted in once or twice. LOL Anyway I mounted the mount to the side rail on the rifle. The red dot is in the center of the sight but high and to the left of the front iron sight. Seems to me they should be pretty close from the get go. Even if I adjust the red dot it will change the poi but the dot will still be in the center of the sight. Looks very strange to see the iron sights in one place and the red dot in a completely different place. I would think they should be pretty darn close to each other. Adjusting the red dot won't change what it looks like in the scope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah thanks LOL I've sighted in once or twice. LOL Anyway I mounted the mount to the side rail on the rifle. The red dot is in the center of the sight but high and to the left of the front iron sight. Seems to me they should be pretty close from the get go. Even if I adjust the red dot it will change the poi but the dot will still be in the center of the sight. Looks very strange to see the iron sights in one place and the red dot in a completely different place. I would think they should be pretty darn close to each other. Adjusting the red dot won't change what it looks like in the scope. Your RDS is not on the same plane as the Irons, therefore it is not cowitnessed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supertex 242 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 get a kalinka bp-02 mount Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Get a TWS Gen 2 rail. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1149/TWS--DOG-LEG/Detail Or perhaps a Ultimak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thumbs1 1 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 I am new to Saiga's but I should think the dot should line up with the front sight. Ok maybe a bit higher but it should be right over the front pin. Now is this a "normal" condition not to line up with the pin? If not do Saiga's have a problem with the side rails? As of now this is what I have. If this is right so be it. If it isn't what is the probably cause? Are the Saiga's side mounts put on correctly or do they have problems with them? Should the dot line up with the front post? I'm not gonna move the dot by moving the azimuth and elevation. It will appear the same no matter where it is. Is the problem most likely the UGT side mount of the Saiga side rail? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joek4061 6 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 I think you are confusing co-witnessing with a red dot on a UTG side rail mount. LOL I know what you are talking about because I have used a red dot with the UTG side rail mount. Don't worry about where the irons are. If your dot is on the target and you pull the trigger and, you find a ragged hole in the center of the target ................. you are where you need to be in life. If you want to co-witness then; you need to explore some of the mounts previously mentioned. You will not get a co- witness from a UTG side rail mount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thumbs1 1 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Ok, in other words it very well be fine. Just because it doesn't co-witness with the front sight doesn't mean it won't sight in properly. I guess it is worth a trip to the range to find out. Thanks that is the answer I was looking for. As long as it will zero I'll be kinda happy. I just thought it would automatically co-witness. I will probably bug me enough to get the other mount anyway. thanks 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 If the rail for the mount sits left or right of rifles bore then yes. The dot will not be aligned with the front sight as far as left to right. Your dot always be higher than the front sight when using that mount because it places the red dot sight so far over the bore. The only time the dot will be aligned directly ontop of you frot sight post is when using a mounting system which cowitensses and let's you see your rear and front sight through the optic. When using a mount like you are pay zero attention to the front sight when you have the red dot mounted. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thumbs1 1 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 If the rail for the mount sits left or right of rifles bore then yes. The dot will not be aligned with the front sight as far as left to right. Your dot always be higher than the front sight when using that mount because it places the red dot sight so far over the bore. The only time the dot will be aligned directly ontop of you frot sight post is when using a mounting system which cowitensses and let's you see your rear and front sight through the optic. When using a mount like you are pay zero attention to the front sight when you have the red dot mounted. Yeah the mount sits(supposedly) sits in the center of the bore. I completely understand the the dot not co-witnessing with the front sight vertically but it also off to the left of the front sight. I would think it should be right over the front sight and not to right or left. It just makes me thing the mount is off center. The problem here is it will bug the heck out of me that it appears not to be correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joek4061 6 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 If the rail for the mount sits left or right of rifles bore then yes. The dot will not be aligned with the front sight as far as left to right. Your dot always be higher than the front sight when using that mount because it places the red dot sight so far over the bore. The only time the dot will be aligned directly ontop of you frot sight post is when using a mounting system which cowitensses and let's you see your rear and front sight through the optic. When using a mount like you are pay zero attention to the front sight when you have the red dot mounted. Yeah the mount sits(supposedly) sits in the center of the bore. I completely understand the the dot not co-witnessing with the front sight vertically but it also off to the left of the front sight. I would think it should be right over the front sight and not to right or left. It just makes me thing the mount is off center. The problem here is it will bug the heck out of me that it appears not to be correct. The mount can be off center to a degree not easily seen with the naked eye. Your front sight could be slightly canted . Remember you are only seeing your front sight post. You are not seeing the front sight post in relation to the rear sight. You will have to live with the end result or look to another mount that will let you co-witness with both your sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thumbs1 1 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Ok thanks. I don't know how to describe it but I'll try. The rifle iron sight sites between to protective posts. Not sure what they are called exactly but you know what I mean. My red dot is above the left protective post. I mean it looks like about 20% off the front sight pin and high. I can understand the high, depending on the mount and rings but I don't understand the 20% off the front sight pin. To me if you put a mount on the rifle and then a red dot the dot should be over the front site pin. Maybe not co-witness but it should be over the pin. Adjusting the clicks on the red dot won't appear to make any difference. I do see what your talking about when you mentioned about relative to the sights. I did have to move the front pin to the right just a bit but the red dot is over the left protective post. Seems that's way off. I am just trying to figure this out. I would like to get the setup to co-witness but I don't know where to start. My guess is the mount. I am guessing the side rail is fine. The only other thing I can think would be the mount. Idono LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Shoot the damned thing in and see what you get! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Due to variations in construction of both rifles and scope mounts, there may be some horizontal mismatch between the axis of the scope rail and the bore and iron sight axes. While some scope mounts may be adjustable to compensate for the differences in tolerances, many Eastern Bloc optics show the offset plainly. It is a hazard of side-mounting. Using a side-mounted scope with a fixed base like the UTG involves some parallax correction at longer ranges. However red dots are not particularly precise scopes and the amount of offset you mention is unlikely to greatly affect horizontal changes in POI. Assuming your scope axis is 1/4" left of center on your rifle and sighted in at 100 yards, it will be 1/4" right of center at 200 yards, other factors notwithstanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dust feeder 2 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Can u ee your rear sight leaf ans co-witness with wither this utg mount or the bp-02? Even if it isn't a perfect co-witness? I've been thinking about trying out a red dot recently, but think I might like it better rear mounted than fforward mounted on an ultimak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 IMO, you're just not going to get anything approaching a real cowitness using a side rail scope mount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joek4061 6 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkRvMUVal3U 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dust feeder 2 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Sorry, accidental double post Edited October 26, 2011 by dust feeder Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HBrebel 5 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I say get a good quality mount, a laser bore sight and go at it. Get your proper meters, yards or feet, match the red dot to the lazer bore sight and you are GTG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweetums 5 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 +1 for just shooting the damn thing and sighting in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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