Trigger Work?

[lynnkcircle 0]

I went to the range yesterday and sighted in my Tasco Red Dot for 100 yards (I'd previously done the same at 50 yards). Something had gone wrong with my right contact (or eye; find out tomorrow!) and I had a lot of trouble focusing on the dot and target, so my results were minute of elephant (say, maybe a 10" group) While I did blow out the center of the target at the end, I don't know if that was good sight adjustment or dumb luck. S&B slugs seemed to shoot a little softer and group better than Remington sluggers. If I didn't TRY to aim, but held the gun as steady on the sandbags as possible and fired three rounds, the S&B consistently gave me cloverleafs at 100 yards.

 

The good news is that when I was done on the rifle range I went to the 20 yard combat shotgun range and had no problem at all hitting the center of the target with buck and bird with the same sight adjustments made for the slugs at 100 yards.

 

ANYHOW, to topic. After that I took my Russian M44 which I'd modified into a scout rifle using one of Darrell's mounts and a 4x scope, figuring that it would help my eye problem. Now, I had stoned the trigger a little before bedding the action, but my mouth dropped open at the difference between the Mosin trigger and the Saiga. By comparison the Mosin was very smooth and light, whereas the Saiga was rough and gritty. Shooting from sandbags for sighting, with the only place my body touched the gun was the butt on my shoulder and my finger on the trigger, sometimes the Saiga tightened up so much at the end I was afraid the round hadn't fully gone into battery. But when I checked it, everything was ok, and the round fired off AFTER I'd applied a lot more pressure to the trigger.

 

So, here's the bottom line: what, if anything, can we do to improve the smoothness and trigger weight?

 

Thanks, all.

 

P.S. It's amazing how much more recoil you feel when your two hands aren't actually holding the stock. The PAST recoil pad which goes on your shoulder slides around and is a bit of bother, but it sure kept me from beating my shoulder black and blue with 25 rounds of slugs fired. Can't recommend it too highly for sighting in any high powered rifle.

[Jeric 0]

My only suggestion would be to take a fine file to all the pertinent surfaces of the FCG (just to make sure everything is a flat and uniform surface while not taking off too much material), then take it down with 400 & 600 grit before you polish the heck out of them. I took mine to a mirror finish. That should help with friction, but probably won't do a thing for the throw.

 

Jeric

[pedal2alloy 206]

Check into the AGI gunsmith DVD's and they have one on how to do an "AK trigger job". Most of it is probably what Jeric said already, but there might be more to it also. I am assuming that the procedure would be the same for the S12 as for the AK. It is supposed to give you a really 'tricked out' trigger.

[stokstad 4]

Best thing you can do is convert it and get rid of the factory trigger. They will never be great. Too much linkage between the trigger and disconnector. Otherwise do what the others have stated.

[JumiKuula 1]

Use file, change parts... No way!

 

http://www.toiminta-ampujat.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=566

 

And watch trough those pics. Plain 2-3mm diameter wire made of iron can make a great difference. And easiest way to make trigger pull lighter is to bend upwards those spring-legs that push trigger down. Right point for bending is about that line where trigger pin is... And btw, don't go lower than 1kg pull because fast doubles will slow down! This thing is tested in 3 S-12 and 1 Sako 92, but yet it hasn't been tested on any Saiga without pistol grip...

 

Guess I'll have to translate that article about tuning AK based trigger system? Or does anyone understand that much Finnish to do the job better than what I could do...?

 

 

-JumiKuula aka JamShot

[stokstad 4]

Use file, change parts... No way!

 

http://www.toiminta-ampujat.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=566

 

And watch trough those pics. Plain 2-3mm diameter wire made of iron can make a great difference. And easiest way to make trigger pull lighter is to bend upwards those spring-legs that push trigger down. Right point for bending is about that line where trigger pin is... And btw, don't go lower than 1kg pull because fast doubles will slow down!   This thing is tested in 3 S-12 and 1 Sako 92, but yet it hasn't been tested on any Saiga without pistol grip... 

 

Guess I'll have to translate that article about tuning AK based trigger system? Or does anyone understand that much Finnish to do the job better than what I could do...?   

 

 

-JumiKuula aka JamShot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whatever those pics are of it looks to be a milled reciever Regular AK type gun. I think he is wondering how to improve the trigger on a stock Saiga. The trigger set up is way different on a stock saiga than an AK type rifle.

[Make 5]

Whatever those pics are of it looks to be a milled reciever Regular AK type gun. I think he is wondering how to improve the trigger on a stock Saiga. The trigger set up is way different on a stock saiga than an AK type rifle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those pics are from stamped receiver Saiga-12 with PG.

Basic operation with trigger must be pretty similar with saiga's in U.S.??

Watch those pics again, compare it to your FCG and be enlightened!

Filing FCG parts with AK -guns is not that good idea in longer terms; hardened coating on the parts is so thin... You'll wear out filed FGC pretty soon...

I've done those modifications to my S-12 and there really is significant change compared to original.

And thanks again, mr Jamshot, for "stovepiping" solution...

 

--Make

[JumiKuula 1]

Whatever those pics are of it looks to be a milled reciever Regular AK type gun. I think he is wondering how to improve the trigger on a stock Saiga. The trigger set up is way different on a stock saiga than an AK type rifle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes it is Sako and other pics are from S-12 internals. That S-12 trigger set up is rather way similar to AK type. It just has trigger cut off and added long bar to transfer that movement to back, but when you change that S-12 "trigger" with regular AK-trigger, remove that plate at the bottom of S-12 and instal Saigas own pistolgrip or similar it works just fine. Nothing else is needed. ...As you've seen the mod with ShitBird already.

 

The problem that arises with regular(?) S-12 trigger set up is that it requires a bit more spring power to cycle that AK's. So, one might not have same 1kg pull but wire still takes away most of that trigger movement before KA-BOOM!.

 

...And one more Sako just got same trigger modification. It took nearly 15 minutes, so mod is quite easy and fast. Try and you'll be surprised.

 

 

-JamShot

 

 

EDIT: Hey Make! Make that tanslation of that "AK trigger job" so people won't go wrong with my poor english.

Edited September 2, 2005 by JumiKuula

[stokstad 4]

Your S12's must be way different then ours or that ones been highly modified. I have never seen an S12 reciever that looks like that. But then you probably dont have to buy them in the "sporter" configuration.

[Make 5]

EDIT: Hey Make! Make that tanslation of that "AK trigger job" so people won't go wrong with my poor english. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My english may not be much better than yours, but here goes:

Improving AK FCG and other voodoo mumblejumble

What's needed:

-2-3mm thick wire

-2 thin edge pliers

-file

-3mm thick iron stick or something like that

-couple of rubber bands

 

Referred pictures can be found from the address above.

 

First take your FCG to pieces; use the pliers to pick springs up and tie them to hammer like shown in the picture 1. They are now out of the way and you don't get your fingers hit by them while messing with other parts...

 

Then pick up the spring which holds the trigger axle and remove axle with 3mm iron stick. Now you can shake rest of the parts off... Don't lose any, since they'll be needed!

Then remove safety selector.

 

Take the trigger to closer inspection. When you find and recognize parts pointed with arrows, you'll be ready to figure out what to do next.

 

Now take the wire and bend it to "W" shape, shown in the picture.

NOTICE: That part in the picture IS NOT IN SCALE!

Try it on to trigger and axle, like in the picture.

 

Now you are ready to re-assemble your FCG. Of course you made a notes of what belongs where and it's simple...

 

Now you'll find out the safety selector won't work anymore.

Just inspect it a while and figure out where to grind it. After filing that part it works like a charm.

That's only thing you'll need the file!

 

Now you want to trim the pull power of the trigger.

 

Remember the springs you found in stage 1?

Pick other up with pliers and bend it up a bit. Test the trigger and bend it some more if needed.

Do not lower the resistance below 1kg! Otherwise the action of the trigger will be significantly slowed and "fast doubles" becomes impossible.

 

There you go. And remember; use these instructions at own risk. YMMV and other legal stuff...

Modification is simple and cheap.

 

--Make

Edited September 2, 2005 by Make

[Make 5]

Your S12's must be way different then ours or that ones been highly modified. I have never seen an S12 reciever that looks like that. But then you probably dont have to buy them in the "sporter" configuration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Receiver is not modified. Notice that most of the pictures are from Sako 7,62, but basic elements and idea are the same in S-12. Some of the pictures are from S-12, as you can see when you're familiar with FCG.

And no, there are no "sporter" configurations in market here... I know only one, and it's brought from U.S....

 

--Make

Edited September 2, 2005 by Make

[mikey1 0]

As Stokstad said, pitch them. You will spend sooo much time polishing things....and then not really gain much.(i've done it). The "TAPCO" parts are sold by most everyone. I don't see much difference between the trigger pull one either the single hook style or the double hook style, just a little more filing to the receiver for the double hook. Convert , eliminate the "rocker" in the Saiga system. I have done and own a S20,S12,and S7.62 x39. Make sure you stay with the legal count to avoid any hassels from "Big" Bro.mikey1

Edited September 2, 2005 by mikey1

[AegisDei 2]

Thanks Make and JamShot. I appreciate the information and the translation. Now I just need to decide if I want to give it a try. Though, using the original trigger group would violate my parts count, wouldn't it?

[Tiny 2]

Best thing you can do is convert it and get rid of the factory trigger. They will never be great. Too much linkage between the trigger and disconnector. Otherwise do what the others have stated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats what I did on all of my Saigas.

The linkage on my 7.62 x 39 was so bad that it jammed up the rest of the FCG while I was at the range and I had a AD due to that.

Good thing I was still pointing the barrel down range as I was inspecting it.

That AD scared the living sh!t out of my.

I had just removed the mag and it went BANG.

I converted it to PG confg. and dropped in a G-2 FCG and polished the surfaces

Now it is as smooth as glass and has a nice and light pull.

Heres a link on how to polish the FCG.

http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/fcg.htm

Edited September 2, 2005 by Tiny

[Tiny 2]

Thanks Make and JamShot.  I appreciate the information and the translation.  Now I just need to decide if I want to give it a try.  Though, using the original trigger group would violate my parts count, wouldn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes Sir it will but on biggy just pick up a G-2 FCG and a US made stock and your good to go.