1st day at the range results ....

[pjd393 18]

It was a humid 93 degrees out here. :o/

 

Setup: Upgrades

CSS performance puck

Phoenix Kick-lite stock

 

Mags:

2 Izzy 5 round

1 Surefire 8 round

 

Ammo:

150 rounds Winchester AA 2.75" 1300 velocity 1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 dr. eq. 8 shot (Meijers were out of 00 buck).

50 rounds Winchester AA 2.75" 1145 velocity 1 1/8 oz. 2 3/4 dr. eq. 7.5 shot

 

High Brass

1 full turn out to setting one (not the closest to the bottom setting 1)

150 rounds of high brass were flawless! Not a single FTE!!!

 

Low Brass:

Tried 10 rounds on setting 1 for kicks. The first 6 were flawless and the next 4 were FTE's.

1 half turn out to setting 2 (not the closest to the bottom setting 2)

I had 3 FTE's in the next 15 rounds.

I pulled out the front spring and swapped it with the CSS Performance Recoil Spring.

I only had 1 FTE in the last 25 rounds!

 

*** The Spring made a huge difference in the ejection of the low brass***.

 

It ejected the shells considerably further!

 

Is it very common to need the spring?

 

Would you say my gun is gassed properly?

Edited July 2, 2012 by pjd393

[vulcan16 971]

If you are using a performance puck and spring, and still have FTE you gun is under gassed.

[pjd393 18]

If you are using a performance puck and spring, and still have FTE you gun is under gassed.

I only had 1 FTE and it was with the Surefire mag. Any coincidence?

[vulcan16 971]

If you are using a performance puck and spring, and still have FTE you gun is under gassed.

I only had 1 FTE and it was with the Surefire mag. Any coincidence?

It might be the mag, or the gun still needs to finish breaking in.

 

I have never used a low power spring or performance puck to get Saiga 12's to operate properly.

If they don't function properly with the stock puck & spring, it's time to re-profile a few parts & do the gas block mod.

That always get them throwing shells reliably, regardless of the mag used..

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Surefire mags.... I have many and they are fine mags.

 

Your weapon is likely under gassed, but some degree of profiling should be done to the hammer and carrier.

 

Do not fire 3" shells with the CSS spring installed. You may live to regret it. It is a step backwards, in my opinion, because the weapon is now limited to 2 3/4" shells with it installed unless you want to gamble with your internals.

 

Kick-Lite stock? Does it absorb recoil? Another step backwards regarding reliability.

 

I may as well take this opportunity to list some of the products that I think are a step backwards....

 

Twister Puck

CSS Spring

JTE mainspring

Recoil absorbing pads and stocks

 

Edited July 2, 2012 by evlblkwpnz

[goldenpony 61]

Why would you say a recoil pad would be a step backwards? Just curious.

[pjd393 18]

Surefire mags.... I have many and they are fine mags.

 

Your weapon is likely under gassed, but some degree of profiling should be done to the hammer and carrier.

 

Do not fire 3" shells with the CSS spring installed. You may live to regret it. It is a step backwards, in my opinion, because the weapon is now limited to 2 3/4" shells with it installed unless you want to gamble with your internals.

THANK YOU for your input!

 

I only plan on 2 3/4".

 

I plan on sending it to Pauly to have the Glass Bolt service performed.

 

I would like to send it to someone under warranty but Cadiz is no longer performing the work and honesty, I wouldn't want to wait months for it to be completed.

 

Do you think any more break in with high brass would help or do I need the gas ports worked on?

[pjd393 18]

Why would you say a recoil pad would be a step backwards? Just curious.

I think he is saying that because it is similar to "limp wristing" a pistol which will cause FTE's.

 

Honestly, I plan on running it as a Kushnapup HD gun. I have fitted everything to the stock already but I wanted to break it in without the Kush stock on it.

 

I bought this butt stock and haused it out around the tang.

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-275/Saiga-SGM-butt-recoil/Detail

 

I know it will absorb less than the Kick-lite. The FTE's may go away with the firmer stock.

[vulcan16 971]

Surefire mags.... I have many and they are fine mags.

 

Your weapon is likely under gassed, but some degree of profiling should be done to the hammer and carrier.

 

Do not fire 3" shells with the CSS spring installed. You may live to regret it. It is a step backwards, in my opinion, because the weapon is now limited to 2 3/4" shells with it installed unless you want to gamble with your internals.

THANK YOU for your input!

 

I only plan on 2 3/4".

 

I plan on sending it to Pauly to have the Glass Bolt service performed.

 

I would like to send it to someone under warranty but Cadiz is no longer performing the work and honesty, I wouldn't want to wait months for it to be completed.

 

Do you think any more break in with high brass would help or do I need the gas ports worked on?

You can do the bolt &hammer re-profiling yourself if you are good with a high speed dremmel. Pauly does great work but youre paying for a lot of bling.

Cadizz can do the work and probably get it back to you fast, and he knows his stuff.

Listen to Evil as he is the King of the garage shop builds, and is as good as some pro builders.

[pjd393 18]

Surefire mags.... I have many and they are fine mags.

 

Your weapon is likely under gassed, but some degree of profiling should be done to the hammer and carrier.

 

Do not fire 3" shells with the CSS spring installed. You may live to regret it. It is a step backwards, in my opinion, because the weapon is now limited to 2 3/4" shells with it installed unless you want to gamble with your internals.

THANK YOU for your input!

 

I only plan on 2 3/4".

 

I plan on sending it to Pauly to have the Glass Bolt service performed.

 

I would like to send it to someone under warranty but Cadiz is no longer performing the work and honesty, I wouldn't want to wait months for it to be completed.

 

Do you think any more break in with high brass would help or do I need the gas ports worked on?

You can do the bolt &hammer re-profiling yourself if you are good with a high speed dremmel. Pauly does great work but youre paying for a lot of bling.

Cadizz can do the work and probably get it back to you fast, and he knows his stuff.

Listen to Evil as he is the King of the garage shop builds, and is as good as some pro builders.

I am good with a dremel but Pauly is amazing and the internals will be smooth as glass! I'm going to have the bolt carrier in OEM matt black finish so the bling will be for smooth operation.

Cadiz stopped doing warranty work.

Evil, I have great respect for his knowledge and ability!

[vulcan16 971]

Cadizz stopped doing warranty work, but will get it running right if you pay the tab.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Re-profiling just the carrier underside and the hammer is a pretty simple deal, but I have seen people hack it up. Only the individual really knows if they should tackle something or not. When in doubt.... send it out.

 

Why would you say a recoil pad would be a step backwards? Just curious.

They absorb energy that would be better put to use cycling the weapon. With strong loads, a pad makes sense, but not when trying to reliably cycle light loads.

 

Cadizz stopped doing warranty work, but will get it running right if you pay the tab.

Can anyone confirm what Cadiz actually does to the average FTE warranty case? I would assume it consists of nothing more than port enlargement or addition.

[pfbz 3]

I am a Saiga rookie, but from what I've read and my own initial testing, I'd try two things:

 

First, verify # of gas ports you have. Very easy to do with a small dental pick through the front of the gas tube. You can feel the ports when the pick drops in them, even if you cant see them. If you pull the bolt carrier and shine a light down the barrel, you can see the tip of the pick drop in through each port.

 

Second, go back to 100% stock configuration and baseline the gun.

• Stock, puck, spring, and adjuster if you changed that as well. FTE's?
  
• Then new puck, with original stock. FTE's?
  
• Finally, go back to the kicklite...
  

I certainly would do both of those things before I started machining/buffing/re-profiling additional parts.

Edited July 3, 2012 by pfbz

[pjd393 18]

I am a Saiga rookie, but from what I've read and my own initial testing, I'd try two things:

 

First, verify # of gas ports you have. Very easy to do with a small dental pick through the front of the gas tube. You can feel the ports when the pick drops in them, even if you cant see them. If you pull the bolt carrier and shine a light down the barrel, you can see the tip of the pick drop in through each port.

 

Second, go back to 100% stock configuration and baseline the gun.

• Stock, puck, spring, and adjuster if you changed that as well. FTF's?
  
• Then new puck, with original stock. FTF's?
  
• Finally, go back to the kicklite...
  

I certainly would do both of those things before I started machining/buffing/re-profiling additional parts.

Cleaning her now.

 

I have 4 ports. 2 were partially clogged. I used a medium sized paper clip and pushed through all 4 (two had debris, could've been from the factory). I am going to try find a large paper clip to see if they will travel through the ports.

 

I have a video of the last 5 of 200 rounds. They were low brass bird shot with performance puc (not twister or booster) and the spring. She was throwing the shells and easy 4-5 away with a nice consistent arc and direction. I will post it tomorrow.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I am a Saiga rookie, but from what I've read and my own initial testing, I'd try two things:

 

First, verify # of gas ports you have. Very easy to do with a small dental pick through the front of the gas tube. You can feel the ports when the pick drops in them, even if you cant see them. If you pull the bolt carrier and shine a light down the barrel, you can see the tip of the pick drop in through each port.

 

Second, go back to 100% stock configuration and baseline the gun.

• Stock, puck, spring, and adjuster if you changed that as well. FTF's?
  
• Then new puck, with original stock. FTF's?
  
• Finally, go back to the kicklite...
  

I certainly would do both of those things before I started machining/buffing/re-profiling additional parts.

FTE = faliure to eject FTF = failure to feed

I am a Saiga rookie, but from what I've read and my own initial testing, I'd try two things:

 

First, verify # of gas ports you have. Very easy to do with a small dental pick through the front of the gas tube. You can feel the ports when the pick drops in them, even if you cant see them. If you pull the bolt carrier and shine a light down the barrel, you can see the tip of the pick drop in through each port.

 

Second, go back to 100% stock configuration and baseline the gun.

• Stock, puck, spring, and adjuster if you changed that as well. FTF's?
  
• Then new puck, with original stock. FTF's?
  
• Finally, go back to the kicklite...
  

I certainly would do both of those things before I started machining/buffing/re-profiling additional parts.

Cleaning her now.

 

I have 4 ports. 2 were partially clogged. I used a medium sized paper clip and pushed through all 4 (two had debris, could've been from the factory). I am going to try find a large paper clip to see if they will travel through the ports.

 

I have a video of the last 5 of 200 rounds. They were low brass bird shot with performance puc (not twister or booster) and the spring. She was throwing the shells and easy 4-5 away with a nice consistent arc and direction. I will post it tomorrow.

Excellent. I love to watch other people spend money

Edited July 3, 2012 by evlblkwpnz

[pfbz 3]

FTE = faliure to eject FTF = failure to feed

Typo, fixed. Though I doubt anybody was confused as to my meaning...

[pjd393 18]

FTE = faliure to eject FTF = failure to feed

Typo, fixed. Though I doubt anybody was confused as to my meaning...

I knew you meant FTE. My buddy has not uploaded the video from his phone to youtube yet but the low brass was consistently flying 4-5' with a nice arc and sideways direction.

 

There was a fair amount of fouling on the gas puc when I cleaned it. The low bass was the last 50 rounds after I had ripped through 150 high brass (not to mention it was VERY hot out).