At what point does a parts kit become an SBR?

[mancat 2,368]

Sorry if this is already answered. I couldn't see in the sticky threads where it was.

 

I am looking at building an AK-102 style carbine. Because I live in WA state, I have no ability to register as an SBR at all. Regardless, I'm hopeful that the law will change at some point, so I want to have the rifle somewhat ready to go when it is.

 

What I have in mind at this point is to purchase a complete 12.4" Bulgarian 5.56 barrel assembly from K-VAR, and begin building this on a Bulgarian AK-74 parts kit that I have: http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-102B.html

 

To make this legal I will have to have a permanently-attached muzzle device to increase the overall barrel length above 16". There are several Krink-style muzzle devices from AK-USA and others that are over 4", and will put the OAL over the legal minimum.

 

My question is, at what point in the build does the muzzle device have to be installed and tacked on? If I install the barrel into the front trunnion, but take a few days to get the muzzle device welded on, is this now constructive intent? Is possession of an SBR barrel assembly without an NFA trust legal at all?

 

Obviously it would be REALLY hard to press a barrel stub into a trunnion when there is a muzzle device attached, without ruining the muzzle device.

 

Thanks for any advice. These laws are BS.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Hell according to one vendor here just possesion of am under sized barrel and a rifle/ shotgun that it could be used for is constructive intent....

[theorangeplanet 968]

I don't think any concept of 'constructive intent' has or will ever apply to SBR's, SBS's, or AOW's. If anyone wants to correct me, link me to an example of someone being charged and/or convicted under such pretenses. Furthermore, an 'SBR barrel assembly' is not a real thing. It is just a barrel, regardless of length. Stick a barrel less than 16 inches in length on a receiver registered as a rifle and you have constructed a short barreled rifle.

 

Obviously it would be REALLY hard to press a barrel stub into a trunnion when there is a muzzle device attached, without ruining the muzzle device.

 

So, why couldn't you just do this all at once? Why would you have to wait any significant period of time before you welded on your muzzle device??

Edited August 6, 2012 by Risky

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

I don't think any concept of 'constructive intent' has or will ever apply to SBR's, SBS's, or AOW's. If anyone wants to correct me, link me to an example of someone being charged and/or convicted under such pretenses. Furthermore, an 'SBR barrel assembly' is not a real thing. It is just a barrel, regardless of length. Stick a barrel less than 16 inches in length on a receiver registered as a rifle can you have constructed a short barreled rifle.

 

 

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2009/08/florida-man-arrested-for-const.html

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Is possession of an SBR barrel assembly without an NFA trust legal at all?

 

In general? Yes. People buy <16" AR uppers all the time and put them on AR pistol lowers, which are not NFA items.

 

I admit, I'm not very savy to the whole "constructive intent" issue. But the way I best heard it described, was that if you have no legal way of using the parts, then it will only hurt you if you should end up in court over it. I'm not a lawyer, though. But it makes sense.

 

 

I don't think any concept of 'constructive intent' has or will ever apply to SBR's, SBS's, or AOW's. If anyone wants to correct me, link me to an example of someone being charged and/or convicted under such pretenses. Furthermore, an 'SBR barrel assembly' is not a real thing. It is just a barrel, regardless of length. Stick a barrel less than 16 inches in length on a receiver registered as a rifle can you have constructed a short barreled rifle.

 

 

http://www.guntrustl...-for-const.html

 

Was there any update on that case? I wonder if he was actually convicted. Not that it really matters, because even if he beat the rap, he still didn't beat the ride.

[mancat 2,368]

So, why couldn't you just do this all at once? Why would you have to wait any significant period of time before you welded on your muzzle device??

 

Because I don't have a welder, so I usually have my stepfather-in-law weld things up for me whenever we get a chance to visit. This means that an incomplete rifle could be sitting around for a few weeks before I could have the muzzle device tacked on.

 

I suppose I could just build the front end of the rifle and leave the rear trunnion out until all of that is done - i.e. build a pistol. I would not shoot it in this state, but leave it like this until I could have the muzzle device tacked on.

[theorangeplanet 968]

I don't think any concept of 'constructive intent' has or will ever apply to SBR's, SBS's, or AOW's. If anyone wants to correct me, link me to an example of someone being charged and/or convicted under such pretenses. Furthermore, an 'SBR barrel assembly' is not a real thing. It is just a barrel, regardless of length. Stick a barrel less than 16 inches in length on a receiver registered as a rifle can you have constructed a short barreled rifle.

 

 

http://www.guntrustl...-for-const.html

 

Interesting... I see that the article also stated "Florida law does not allow individuals to possess the pieces to readily build an SBR, SBS, or Machine Gun unless permitted to do so under Federal law." So those were state charges and not federal? So unless your state law specifically prohibits it, then you're alright?

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

i remember hearing someone selling a gsg5 with the collapsable stock on gunbroker got charged but i can't find a link, the gsg was a pistol and the stock was not attached

[theorangeplanet 968]

So, why couldn't you just do this all at once? Why would you have to wait any significant period of time before you welded on your muzzle device??

 

Because I don't have a welder, so I usually have my stepfather-in-law weld things up for me whenever we get a chance to visit. This means that an incomplete rifle could be sitting around for a few weeks before I could have the muzzle device tacked on.

 

I suppose I could just build the front end of the rifle and leave the rear trunnion out until all of that is done - i.e. build a pistol. I would not shoot it in this state, but leave it like this until I could have the muzzle device tacked on.

 

What about silver soldering?

[mancat 2,368]

I could probably do that as a hot iron is not too expensive.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

mancat - the way I understand it, if you have a receiver that has ever had a buttstock installed or been transferred as a long gun, you have a rifle - if you have a virgin receiver, it is simply a "firearm" and you can install a barrel of any length you care to. As long as you bring the barrel length to over 16" BEFORE installing a buttstock (or even the rear trunnion, possibly), you should be good to go. However, if the receiver has ever been a rifle, installing a barrel less than 16" in length probably constitutes construction of an SBR.

 

I'm not a lawyer, etc.

[mancat 2,368]

That makes a bit more sense. I wonder if it may be a grey area if I purchase an NDS-2EZ receiver, which is pre-drilled for Bulgarian/Russian AK-74 trunnions.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

That makes a bit more sense. I wonder if it may be a grey area if I purchase an NDS-2EZ receiver, which is pre-drilled for Bulgarian/Russian AK-74 trunnions.

 

If the trunnions aren't installed, and the receiver hasn't ever had a buttstock installed nor the receiver transferred as a long gun, no. It's still a "firearm" and could be built as a rifle or pistol.

[mancat 2,368]

Alright, so.. Build the gun to a complete receiver but do NOT install a rear trunnion until the muzzle device is perm attached. Sounds like a reasonable approach. At that point, the gun never has had a stock attached, and therefore has never been a rifle. Hope that's the law!

[G O B 3,516]

If you have the parts to put it together, and it is completed enough to assemble without using machine tools, then that would be constructive intent. If you have a couple AR pistols and several AR rifles all dissembled and stored together they are just pistols and rifles. Sell all the pistol receivers and one of the rifle length barrels, but keep the pistol upper - then the same bunch of parts becomes constructive intent. That is the basic logic, if you only have parts to complete an illegal assemblage, and they can be 'readily' assembled (does not need machine work) then you have constructive intent.

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

Why do you want to install the barrel in the trunnion before it is 16" or longer? Is it that more difficult to install the fully finished barrel into the trunnion? Given that the risk, while a low probability, is that you can go to jail for 10 years and/or bankrupt yourself fighting the charges, what is the reward of taking that risk that makes it all worthwhile to you?