Laws on buying ammo

[Jaffa Killer 0]

Ok heres what happened.I am a minor(almost 16) and I love guns and shooting, and I have been buying most of my ammo at Wal-Mart. I go in and ask for the ammo i want then my dad pays for it.I have never had a problem till today. A different guy was at the register,and i told him i need some bullets.He asked me how old i was i told him not old enough but my dad is.I said i need some 22's,he then told me (in a not-so polite voice) that next time i want to buy ammo i cannot, i repeat, cannot ask for it myself that i will have to tell my dad what i want then get him to ask for it.Well, some words where exchanged and we left without the ammo.We later went to a local gun shop and i asked for them and they sold them without any probs.My dad payed for it so they were still legal.So anyway, my question is this,is there anything illegal bout me telling them what i want.The way i see it as long as i dont pay for it im legal right???Cause the wal mart guy was worried that he would go to jail for selling ammo to a minor.He told me that he can go to jail if i touch the ammo box, carry it out of the store,or just about anything to it.He even went so far as to tell me that if i say the words "gun" or"ammo" that we could both go to jail.So whats the law say bout all this???

[AegisDei 2]

I'm not 110% sure on the actually gun laws, but I know that Walmart has employee rules and the employee could be canned with a quickness for breaking them. However, you are right not to trust his word since he doubtfully knows the laws in-and-out. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I can provide a follow-up post, but unfortunately he was just doing his job so he can't be hated on too much.

[ditchdigger 0]

I'm also not a legal expert but in my opinion as long as a parent or legal gaurdian is present it shouldn't be a problem. In my state I remember picking out my first deer rifle with my dad but that was 15 years ago. If I had to guess I'd say he's full of shit. Unless you're in califonia, then who knows.

[NoTreason4 0]

He's just giving you his paranoid fears about what "authority" might do to him if he steps out of line. People are sheep. Hell, the law that says he can't buy you ammo is null and void-- its unconstitutional to begin with. Its not about the law, its about control. So his fears of you touching the ammo or asking about it as based on that fear. You're going to be dealing with people like this more and more. You'll even find them in the gun culture-- people saying the AK is illegal, or other garbage.

 

Don't sweat it. Don't take it personally. I think that often people being idiots comes off as a judgement, and this guy may even have been an ass... but he, and the situation are not worth letting get to you. Detach your ego and emotions from it, and you'll see its amusing-- he's so afraid of getting in trouble, he's making up laws. He's a sheep. And he's pathetic.

 

You've just had an instruction in how reality is not what it is claimed. This is claimed to be a free country, but it is a country were store clerks live in fear of talking about a legal product to a kid. (Not calling you a kid, but that's how he sees you.) You see how weak and immature he is? You see how reality is so different from the speech of poltiicians and the pitch marketed on the evening news? This difference is going to get more dramatic as time goes on.

 

When I pierced the veil it was a shock to me. If I'd done it at your age, I'd have an extra 15 years of having been less clueless.

 

Ok, back on topic. He's wrong. You could walk up to him and ask for crack cocaine. Talking isn't illegal. Maybe its "illegal" to sell to you, but asking for ammo is no big deal. Maybe strategically its better to have your dad buy it... but the clerk is just being paranoid. Resist the temptation to rub it in.

[Jaffa Killer 0]

I figured it was a load of bullshit anyway,i just wanted to know if there's anything in the laws that say i cant ask for or talk about ammunition.I know the world is full of morons and i also know that this guy is one of 'em,but i may go back to wally world sometime and ask the manager just what their rules are.The guy pissed me off but it wouldn't be that bad if i knew their rules regarding such things.

[shotgun_lobotomy 0]

well actually i think hes right , the only thing hes wrong about is ur dad is allowed to buy it for u but a starnger really isnt supposed too, kindo like a straw purchase. even tho im 27 if i dont have id for my cigs and try to get my friend to buy em with his they deny me, just remember screw walmart they have called the police on ppl for buying alot of ammo before

[pistonring8 1]

I figured it was a load of bullshit anyway,i just wanted to know if there's anything in the laws that say i cant ask for or talk about ammunition.I know the world is full of morons and i also know that this guy is one of 'em,but i may go back to wally world sometime and ask the manager just what their rules are.The guy pissed me off but it wouldn't be that bad if i knew their rules regarding such things.

 

 

I dont know what state you live in, but here in Pennsylvania, it is NOT illegal for your father to buy you a rifle or ammo. Wheather the store clerk knows its for you or not. Its stated in the state regs that a parent or legal guardian may supervise the use of a long arm. Your father may also allow you to fire a handgun at the public range under his supervision, but if he gives you a handgun, you must be of legal age and it must be transfered through a ffl. Long arms (rifles) are not registered or restricted except by ownership of prohibited persons, and persons under age 18. If you are under 18, you can still use the rifle and ammo under parental supervision. Believe it or not, some fellons and restricted persons may hunt with a bow or muzzleloader in most cases. It is up to Walmart or Kmart or wherever if they are going to sell your father ammo or not. It is actually less of a legal issue and more of a buisness practice. My advice would be to go elsewhere for ammo. It is not likely that you are going to change the clerks mind on this matter.

 

I have spoken to my State Police legal department (Firearms Division) on several occasions. I am always surprised to find them very helpful and knowledgeable about laws and "grey areas". I was also surprised that they gave me so much information as to my rights and freedoms when it came to firearms in PA. Perhaps you should contact your guys and have a chat with them.

 

I hope this helps.

[shotgun_lobotomy 0]

i was under the impression that by PA law ur father could give u a gun, any gun pistol or rifle as long as ur legally allowed to own it and the right age without paperwork

[okie shooter 0]

Quoted from the web site below,

 

A Citizen`s Guide to Federal Firearms Laws

 

A summary of federal restrictions on the purchase,

sale, possession, and transportation of firearms and ammunition

 

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=60

 

"Ammunition

 

As with firearms, shipments of ammunition must be accompanied by a written notice of the shipment`s contents. It is unlawful for any licensed importer, dealer, manufacturer or collector to transfer shotgun or rifle ammunition to anyone under the age of 18, or any handgun ammunition to anyone under the age of 21."

 

 

There you go, an adult must buy the ammunition, proably is simular to straw purchaces of firearms. If you order it you must be able to buy it, so if you are underage and ask for it they cannot sell it to you if your father orders it at the counter and pays then its his problem not the stores.

[acetomatoco 0]

Like okie shooter says and here is the U.S. code

18 USC 44 922 ( a ) ( 9 )

(b ) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver -

(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

 

They must sell it to someone that can legally purchase it.

According to the U.S. case below a parent/guardian can make a straw purchase for their children. As with any law it varies from State to State and could be more restrictive. Check your State laws. If your State allows it then its either store policy or the clerks misunderstanding.

Searched the NET and found an interesting U.S. court case (Appeal 1997) about Parental Straw Purchases,Ammo and Parental Permission for handguns etc.

Basically, a juvenile's mother pawned an item and gave the cash to her son, she did not buy him a pistol that he wanted. At a later date the son talked an unrelated old man into buying a pistol for him at the same pawn shop, The boy paid the man and the man gave the pistol to the boys mother,who then gave it to her son. (the juvenile later killed a LEO) The old man and mother were arrested and convicted of various charges but Appealed it and WON.

The case is lengthy but should be read to see how complicated straw purchases are and how they won.

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/us_v_moore3.txt

Both,Idaho and the United States changed their laws about parental permission after this event and now require written consent. See footnote 2 below.

FOOTNOTES (from above case)

1. The opinions of the three-judge panel are reported at 84 F.3d 1567 (9th Cir. 1996).

2. At the time this firearm was purchased, Idaho law did not prohibit the sale of a firearm to a minor so long as the minor had the consent of a parent or a guardian. Idaho Code section 18-3302A (1990). Since these events, the Idaho Legislature amended section 18-3302A to require the written permission of a parent or a guardian. The Gun Control Act has also been amended to make it illegal for a juvenile to possess a handgun without a parent's or guardian's written consent. 18 U.S.C. sections 922(X)(1)(A) & 922 (X)(3)(A)(iii) (1994).

 

What is legal today can change at any time. Check the laws occasionally. Different laws also apply to pistol ammo and rifle ammo as seen in 18 USC Chapter 44 922(x) Age and possession requirements.

[pistonring8 1]

That was cool ace, thanks for taking the time to research and post that!

[Jaffa Killer 0]

Thanks for all the input guys.