Legion Saiga 12K full video review!!

[DavidQ 170]

Here is the review video of my newly purchased and imported Saiga 12K. Hope you guys enjoy it.

 

Some shooting action after the gas work.

 

 

Edited to add video.

Edited August 12, 2013 by AZ-DAVE-IZ109

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Nice gun. They should put choke adapters on them if they arte gonna weld something on there to make compliance. I doubt if they replaced the bolt carrier extension / AKA op rod / AKA gas piston. If they had it would be easy to tell by looking at the way it's retained. If it still has dimples in the sides it's original.

[DavidQ 170]

Yeah I don't think they did replace it. The op rod is still dimpled and looks factory so they may have just changed the puck.

[supertex 242]

Good review. Did they change the fcg?

[DavidQ 170]

Yes it now has a tapco fcg. This one feels a lot smoother than normal. Nothing has been reprofiled but it is clean and crisp.

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Very nice

[sunnybean 939]

I agree with Cobra, they did a huge disservice to these guns by welding that hideous looking phoenix flame breacher onto the muzzle.

[DavidQ 170]

That is one of the things that will be replaced very soon. I will be installing the 10 slot short version copy flash hider. I would like to keep it as original as I can.

[sunnybean 939]

That is one of the things that will be replaced very soon. I will be installing the 10 slot short version copy flash hider. I would like to keep it as original as I can.

Tits!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Is there an upward safety stop?

 

That weld on the brake is not in compliance with ATF's ruling on a "permanent" installation. If you're using an external weld like that, it needs to run at least 50% of the brake's circumference. The early weld jobs on the 17" RAA guns were not in compliance either.

[gunfun 3,931]

The autoplug is not a 922 r compliance part but it is very nice to have. The puck is.

[gunfun 3,931]

I agree with Cobra, they did a huge disservice to these guns by welding that hideous looking phoenix flame breacher onto the muzzle.

 

The funny thing is that DPH makes that. DPH also makes an excellelent copy of the proper flash hider to match the S12K and it is a cheaper part. That is just odd to me.

 

I think the "operating rod" (what would be the piston on an AK) appears to be Russian.

 

AZ Dave - I suggest you get a standard recoil spring rather than the weakened spring.

[DavidQ 170]

Tony, there is no upward safety on this gun. It stops inside the receiver cover. I have some silver solder and might just have to get the new brake sooner than later.

 

GunFun, I do have the original spring for it and just may put it in. I have shot nothing but universal through it and haven't tested it with different parts yet.

[gregomega 929]

Do want!

Also never seen or heard that a brake needed to be externally welded at least 50%. Im not a pro or the ATF so I really can say for sure. just never seen that befo.

[gunfun 3,931]

I think, but do not know that Tony is referring to an administrateve "guide line" or opinion letter rather than a regulation. The difference is that regs are mandatory and guidelines are just that- guidelines that if you do the following malarkey you probably comply with the regs. Not following a guideline does not necessarily mean you don't comply with the reg, but it is a tougher argument for them. Also sometimes you can argue that even though you didn't actually meet the reg, you followed the guideline, so it's unfair for them to jerk you around after you did what they said. Other times, following administrative guidelines creates a rebuttable presumption that you have complied, so it switches the burden. i.e. normally you might have to prove that you followed the reg, but if you prove you followed the guideline, they might then have to prove that you did not follow the reg.

[gregomega 929]

gotcha.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

AZG,

 

I don't recall if the 50% welding deal was in an actual ruling or simply a letter to an individual, regardless, it appears ATF has changed their position and made the requirement completely vague. Now it just says you need to weld it or sliver solder it in place.

[gregomega 929]

AZG,

 

I don't recall if the 50% welding deal was in an actual ruling or simply a letter to an individual, regardless, it appears ATF has changed their position and made the requirement completely vague. Now it just says you need to weld it or sliver solder it in place.

oh, that makes sense. Not that I study atf mumbo jumbo or anything. That was just a new one to me. Thanks for the clarification Tony.

[DavidQ 170]

Thanks for all your comments guys. I added a video to the top of it in action. More to come!!!!

[gunfun 3,931]

AZG,

 

I don't recall if the 50% welding deal was in an actual ruling or simply a letter to an individual, regardless, it appears ATF has changed their position and made the requirement completely vague. Now it just says you need to weld it or sliver solder it in place.

 

Thanks. I've wondered about pinning /welding devices that have more than one kind of metal in them.

[beefcakeb99 572]

I think it's great that it's available. Glad most of the changes can be reverted... Id be getting a Russian hammer, plug, hg, flash hider, pistol grip, a reinforcement plate since it's a folder, and the bridge sight. Along with original springs and trigger.

 

 

Kind of sucks you already had to mod the ports... Seems like they tried to fix the problem with everything short of that though. It definitely had some hands messing with it before you got it, but it all seems easily fixable. Whatall was the problems you waited to post about? Just the tuning? Or was there something else?

 

 

As I said in the other thread, super jealous.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Stating the obvious here but you are aware right, that you will have to remove the barrel from the receiver if you plan on removing the brake yourself? Otherwise you will be in posession of an un papered SBS until you have welded a new brake or othere device in place.

Further... if it were me I would call and speak to Scott about trying to get one of his DPH 10 slot FHs he was working on that were to be threaded for Winchokes. This would give you many additional options for muzzle attachments including rifled slug chokes.

Of course that is assuming your barrel is actually at least 16 5/16" at the bare minimum. The DPH adds exactly 1 11/16" to the OAL of the barrel when screwed all the way down.You could probably stretch that up to almost half an inch and still have a couple of turns onto the threads but would have to be certain you got it on true with the bore.

Otherwise if you can't get one threaded for chokes I again recommend the threaded choke adapter from Cobra's Custom or AK Builder.

[DavidQ 170]

Thanks for the great advice Cobra. I have seriously considered just going the SBS route so I can have the true platform of the Saiga 12K. I think it would be easier in the long run.

[gunfun 3,931]

This particular package doesn't make sense to me.

 

From what I can tell the primary market for a "K" model is the purist bunch. This package changed out almost every swappable part to something that offends the purists.

 

The second potential market for a "K" model that occurs to me is the guys who play a bunch of video games. They want the one that kicks butt in the games and the game called it a "Saiga 12 K" so they want to buy a "Saiga 12 K" and nothing else. Maybe that is who legion was aiming at.?.

 

It is a decent way to get a factory installed 100 series folder though.

[supertex 242]

Under the front sight ( gold bead) is a dime size adjuster? How does it work? It doesn`t seem to move very much. thanks

[gregomega 929]

This particular package doesn't make sense to me.

 

From what I can tell the primary market for a "K" model is the purist bunch. This package changed out almost every swappable part to something that offends the purists.

 

The second potential market for a "K" model that occurs to me is the guys who play a bunch of video games. They want the one that kicks butt in the games and the game called it a "Saiga 12 K" so they want to buy a "Saiga 12 K" and nothing else. Maybe that is who legion was aiming at.?.

 

It is a decent way to get a factory installed 100 series folder though.

purists....maybe. I dont play video games really or at least nothing to do with warfare anyway, not any more. I guess you would have to define purists. I dont think I fall into that category(not that I care). I can appreciate modified firearms that aren't exactly correct factory. Ive got a M92 with svds folder for fucksake. I still want one of the 108. Have for some time now, mostly due to the top sight rail. Rare part that isnt available otherwise. Got one from a member on here but without all the correct parts, its useless. So I need a 108. Being from the factory is just icing on the cake. The K factor add's a little bit of value but is mostly just a letter. Value is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Take the KSG for example. Alot of people spend over $1000 on it. After MAC's review, I wont even consider it anymore. What a POS.

 

I think the S12K just another model. People say oh, the spetznaz/military/LE use this model and the spetznaz/military/LE use that model. I dont think it has anything to do with that. maybe for some but, in general, I think people like the Saiga 12ga because it comes from the AK family which has its own reputation. And now that there are so many business members enhancing it, its way more mainstream and is almost mythical to just own "1" saiga 12 regardless of model for some people. It was for me before I bought my 1st one. As far as potential market, I dont think gamers and purists are what they were going for and if it is, there dealing in small beans which I doubt they are.

[gunfun 3,931]

Oh. I like my IZ108 top rail, especially when combined with dinzag's high front sight. It's not perfect, but it is nice. I'm with you on your point.

 

But there definitely are people who want whatever they heard Spetsnaz uses, and that is a model number.

 

I understand that someone who really wants one will buy this and swap everything out until he gets what he wants. My point is more that they could have just as easily and cheaply had it come with the parts that would have made the purist happy. They could have ordered DPH or Md 10 slot, and spent 40 minutes shop time to uniform the ports on each one, and saved the money on the CSS low brass kit. The autoplug is a desirable part too, but probably not to the purist. So it adds to the build cost, but probably doesn't help the gun sell any better. I don't think most of the S12K purists would care for a quad either. It might be harder to come up with a US made forend that looks OEM so I don't blame them for choosing something else, but choosing an ugly tapco AK pistol grip or the MD molot grip would have looked more appropriate. -- Just as the OP determined.

 

That does remind me of something you are probably a lot more qualified to discuss: -S12 K Specs- From what I can tell, it is a marketing label rather than a fixed configuration. All of them probably have a 100 series folder, but I am pretty sure I have seen genuine S12 Ks with AK sights, iz109 style sights, IZ108 rail most often, and also with that single setting gas block that has a front sight and a pic rail. As far as I can tell, each of those was an official S12K- So is there a fixed specification beyond stock and barrel length and maybe white plastic up front?

 

As for KSG, I believe that most of the reviews out there are honest. I think some people get one that works brilliantly and give a rave review and the next guy gets a shoddy POS, and is outraged. I think both are justified and you need both to see the whole picture. If you want a KSG- see if you can try before you buy- I guess. It would be an interesting gun to me if it were semi, and it had an automatic tube switch when you run dry. I've noticed that every review I have seen whether praising or cursing it, they all forget to switch, click then say "well it doesn't matter- it's a training issue." I call it a design flaw if it sets you up for trouble unless you remember to do something normally needless under stress.

[gregomega 929]

Oh. I like my IZ108 top rail, especially when combined with dinzag's high front sight. It's not perfect, but it is nice. I'm with you on your point.

You have both on there? Have any pictures posted of this? Im curious to see that setup.

But there definitely are people who want whatever they heard Spetsnaz uses, and that is a model number.

I wouldn't mind the K being on there if thats the model it was, but don't value it really any less if its not. Still goes bang every time.

I understand that someone who really wants one will buy this and swap everything out until he gets what he wants. My point is more that they could have just as easily and cheaply had it come with the parts that would have made the purist happy. They could have ordered DPH or Md 10 slot, and spent 40 minutes shop time to uniform the ports on each one, and saved the money on the CSS low brass kit. The autoplug is a desirable part too, but probably not to the purist. So it adds to the build cost, but probably doesn't help the gun sell any better. I don't think most of the S12K purists would care for a quad either. It might be harder to come up with a US made forend that looks OEM so I don't blame them for choosing something else, but choosing an ugly tapco AK pistol grip or the MD molot grip would have looked more appropriate. -- Just as the OP determined.

thats the funny thing is I look on Legions website and they have the 10 slot on there. I dont know why AZDaveIZ109's has the phoenix FH on it or why his lacks the pistol grip also shown in their photo: Wonder how he got all the extras like the spring, phenix FH, and Auto plug. Maybe I read wrong and they didnt come with it.

I agree on most of the US parts could be had cheaper but I still cant find all the parts for the top sight rail. otherwise I wouldnt want the 108. I think there is something to be said though for saigas coming from the factory with folders on them as opposed to having someone else put them in. For one, you know its done right. There is no waiting to have them installed or mishaps cuz the builder was having a bad day and I guess the purist in me likes that the factory did it....as crappy as some of the QC can be..lol..

That does remind me of something you are probably a lot more qualified to discuss: -S12 K Specs- From what I can tell, it is a marketing label rather than a fixed configuration. All of them probably have a 100 series folder, but I am pretty sure I have seen genuine S12 Ks with AK sights, iz109 style sights, IZ108 rail most often, and also with that single setting gas block that has a front sight and a pic rail. As far as I can tell, each of those was an official S12K- So is there a fixed specification beyond stock and barrel length and maybe white plastic up front?

 

According to the Izhmash website, this is their version of Saiga 12K:

No top rail.... who, knows....maybe papa zorro or vinni83. I know SaigaTechUSA/forgot his other name made his with the top rail. but yeah, whatever.

 

As for KSG, I believe that most of the reviews out there are honest. I think some people get one that works brilliantly and give a rave review and the next guy gets a shoddy POS, and is outraged. I think both are justified and you need both to see the whole picture. If you want a KSG- see if you can try before you buy- I guess. It would be an interesting gun to me if it were semi, and it had an automatic tube switch when you run dry. I've noticed that every review I have seen whether praising or cursing it, they all forget to switch, click then say "well it doesn't matter- it's a training issue." I call it a design flaw if it sets you up for trouble unless you remember to do something normally needless under stress.

Yeah, I was hopeful for a while about the KSG but due to unavailability mostly, I just dont care anymore. Its alot easier that way. Wouldn't mind having one for the right price one day. MAC main problem with it was the shells ejecting on his arm. and then there was some small jamming issues. One he talked about recently I think on the bangswitch board about not ejecting a spent shell and spring pushing up another to be loaded causing jams and disassembly to fix it.....not exactly clear on that one but regardless, I cant find one anyway. got to hold one at shotshow13 though. that was fun.

Edited August 13, 2013 by AZG

[supertex 242]

http://www.izhmash-arms.ru/eim/imp/22.htmlThere are 4 S12K`s

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Under the front sight ( gold bead) is a dime size adjuster? How does it work? It doesn`t seem to move very much. thanks

You need to depress the spring that locks the adjustment wheel in the four optional slots it fits into. Access is through the small hole just above and behind it.

Just stick a small pin punch in the hole and push upward til you can turn the wheel.

 

The short barreled K Version 10

 

http://www.izhmash-arms.ru/eim/imp/29.html