rsteciak 4 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Howdy, new forum guy whose also new to the Saiga world. Have worked on ARs for a few years but this is a new adventure. I just picked up a 2013 RWC 7.62 "sporter" and am looking at conversion ideas. I've read about some of these being threaded and others not. I'm wondering if any of you have experience with these recent imports related to them commonly being threaded or not. I don't want to start cutting the shroud just to find out it's not threaded although this model's FSB looks a bit different than some of the old ones in that it's pinned below the barrel. Appears it could be de-pinned and pulled off (like an AR) without having to destroy it. Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated. Thx. Here are some pics (not the greatest, I know): Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Knocked my pins out the other night. Go from left to right, and hit it smartly with a punch. Mine came out pretty easy. I have not tried to remove it yet. Still wondering if I have to cut the shroud first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 That was going to be my approach as well. Figured I'd try to see what others might have found under the FSB and shroud on this model before going forward. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Even if there aren't threads under there, it would be easy to throw a Bulgy 74 FSB on there as the barrel is already drilled for the pins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Well, I guess I'm itching to find out so will probably give it a shot and try to pull it off within the next couple of days. Will let you know what I find. Thx. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah, please do. I hit mine a few times with a mallet, but nothing happened. I really was not trying all that hard either. I am guessing we will have to cut off the shroud. I don't mind doing that, just don't want to if I don't have to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 The shroud is one piece with the FSB and won't affect the removal. It would be easier to use a bearing puller to pull the FSB of than to try to beat it off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Don't have a bearing puller. Any other suggestions on pulling it off? Ideally, I'd like to salvage it in case I decide to put it back on. Questions on the Bulgy 74 FSB: If this barrel is threaded, I assume the threads will match? If not, what thread pattern does this need? Any tips on where to find one? Thx. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) If don't have a puller then you'll have to beat it off. Bulgy FSB is 24x1.5mmRH, so it will not match what's under the shroud. This will, however, allow you to use K-var's 7.62 version of the 74 brake, which is very effective. The block itself will goes over the barrel, with the end of the block being around flush with the end of the barrel. In your case it will just be a matter of lining the grooves for the pins up and putting them back in. If K-var or DSArms don't have any, keep an eye on the BST forums as they usually pop up there. Edited March 5, 2014 by W8lifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Sounds good. Will let you know what I find after I get the FSB off. Hoping to work on that and the conversion kit from CSS this weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 If don't have a puller then you'll have to beat it off. Bulgy FSB is 24x1.5mmRH, so it will not match what's under the shroud. This will, however, allow you to use K-var's 7.62 version of the 74 brake, which is very effective. The block itself will goes over the barrel, with the end of the block being around flush with the end of the barrel. In your case it will just be a matter of lining the grooves for the pins up and putting them back in. If K-var or DSArms don't have any, keep an eye on the BST forums as they usually pop up there. Would heating it help? I know that there is sometimes a gooey locktite like substance under the shroud....just fishing here. I have no plans on reusing the saiga FSB, so if whacking does not work, I will just cut it like I did the dimpled ones. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm a bit up in the air on what to do with this, depending on what I find. I would like to salvage the original FSB/shroud in case I find no threading underneath and decide to put it back on. The reason for that is that threading a barrel here in CT is a very gray area with our crazy new laws. I'm hoping that I can get it off without damaging it and see what I find. Even if it's threaded, I might just cut the shroud and put it back on to allow for a muzzle device (not sure which one yet). I assume cutting the shroud with it off the rifle would be even easier since I don't have to worry about cutting into the barrel or threads? Hope I'm on track here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dashowdy 141 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I think you should soak the pins and fsb thoroughly in penetrating oil,before attempting what you are talking about, will make life much easier on yourself if you intend to remove it and keep it intact, then a bench vise and a puller of some kind, I dont know as much about this because I have never tried to save one, I just cut the front of the shroud off with a hacksaw, should not take more than 15 minutes, then twist with pliers and if it comes straight off then no threads, if it has to be twisted off then it is more than likely threaded. A sturdy bench vice and puller would be ideal but a hammer against the back in a sturdy vice may get it off once the pins are out. If the pins wont go you are limited to cutting the shroud on the barrel or cutting it off, mine were dimpled and pressed on so no pins for mine but it is a 09 model they changed I think after 2010 to pins instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Thanks. I'll let you all know how I make out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaba1017 71 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 No the barrels are not threaded. Those barrels are designed for a 24mm threaded FSB of the AK74 variety. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 In that case, is this the right type of die to cut for that muzzle device? I assume this is a RH thread? Can that original FSB be used if it's cut back to accomodate the muzzle device? Thx. https://www.cncwarrior.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=25064 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 No the barrels are not threaded. Those barrels are designed for a 24mm threaded FSB of the AK74 variety. The 100-series was intended to use the 24x1.5RH blocks, but handful come threaded 14x1LH. It's very hit and miss though. In that case, is this the right type of die to cut for that muzzle device? I assume this is a RH thread? Can that original FSB be used if it's cut back to accomodate the muzzle device? Thx. https://www.cncwarrior.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=25064 No, I think you're misunderstanding the concept of the bulgarian FSB. The Bulgy block fits over the barrel. The block itself is threaded 24x1.5RH. All you do is remove your current FSB and install the new one. No threading involved. Here's a pic of the FSB: http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/gallery/1287264298/gallery_7122_472_17467.jpg If you thread your own barrel, you cut the shroud on your current FSB back as close as you can and thread the barrel itself. The most common thread for that purpose is the 14x1LH (also available from CNC warrior). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ok, thanks. I was misunderstanding how the Bulgy FSB works. Got it now. Do you have any ideas on where they're sold? I guess I still have to pull the current one off to see what's underneath and go from there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 https://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-167B.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Dinky, I am doing what W8lifter is talking about. I am completely removing the Saiga FSB and putting on a Bulgy 74 FSB. It completely replaces the Saiga FSB, and I will have no need for the Saiga FSB once I am done. The bulgy FSB gives you threads to attach a muzzle brake or flash hider. The threads are 24RH. If you just want to keep the Saiga FSB and thread the barrel, that is an option as well. In that case, you keep the Saiga FSB on, and just cut the shroud in front of the FSB. A pipe cutter is the best method for this, and it would allow you to use a threading tool to thread the saiga barrel. This would give you a 14LH thread, and you could attach a slant brake and index it with a crush washer. Either option is fairly easy, but I prefer the muzzle brake options with the Bulgy FSB and the 24RH threads. Plus, by the time you buy the tools to thread the barrel, you could almost pay for a Bulgy FSB. If you look around on the internet, you can find private sellers selling the Bulgy FSB for around $50. That is where I got mine. Edited March 7, 2014 by Semper299 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Great info. Is this the right type of compensator that goes on the Bulgy block? I'm sure there are different options but want to be sure that this is the right fit/approach if I go that route. thx. https://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-140US.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Great info. Is this the right type of compensator that goes on the Bulgy block? I'm sure there are different options but want to be sure that this is the right fit/approach if I go that route. thx. https://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-140US.html Yep, that's what you want. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Excellent. I'll start looking around. Am going to work on the gun this weekend and will see what I find. Thx. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, Jaba was right. No threads on this barrel. Ended up having to cut it off with a dremel after trying to bang it off once I removed the pins. That thing was really on there. As someone noted, perhaps the cut in the barrel to hold the pins kept it on tight. The whole thing is stripped down now. Will work on the FCG next and order the Bulgarian FSB. A question, I notice there's a Bulgarian AK74 style compensator and one that looks the same but US made. I saw a Youtube comparing the two and apparently the US version is considerably heavier. Any experience with those 2 variations on that compensator? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 No experience with the bulgarian made one, but when adding foreign parts just make sure you're 922r compliant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Well, Jaba was right. No threads on this barrel. Ended up having to cut it off with a dremel after trying to bang it off once I removed the pins. That thing was really on there. As someone noted, perhaps the cut in the barrel to hold the pins kept it on tight. The whole thing is stripped down now. Will work on the FCG next and order the Bulgarian FSB. A question, I notice there's a Bulgarian AK74 style compensator and one that looks the same but US made. I saw a Youtube comparing the two and apparently the US version is considerably heavier. Any experience with those 2 variations on that compensator? If I'm thinking of the same same video you saw, he was comparing a Tapco 74-*style* brake and a genuine Bulgarian brake. The brake from K-var that you linked is made by K-var and is identical to the actual Bulgarian piece. The only difference between the Bulgarian and K-var piece is that the 7.62 brake is drilled to 10mm to accommodate the larger round. The Tapco is more or less only good for decoration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Well, in keeping with trying to be 922r compliant and get the parts I can find in order to move along on this, I ordered the K-VAR FSB and matching brake. Started working on the FCG today but got distracted and will get back to it tomorrow. Got hung up a bit on the spring holding the bolt catch on the trigger pin. That spring is a bit of bitch getting in there. I'll conquer it tomorrow though. Just got my IWD walnut stock set in today and see what you guys meant about the quality of the IWD stocks; beautiful furniture.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah, the IWD stuff is top shelf. Is it the bolt hold open spring that is holding you up? Try using dental floss. Loop one end to the spring and drop the string through the BHO lever opening. Then you can pull down on the spring to get it in place. It's how I got mine in because someone on here told me the floss trick. Edited March 11, 2014 by Semper299 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsteciak 4 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Thanks for the tip. I actually worked on it again tonight and got it together. I ended up using the hook tool that I saw on videos for grabbing the hammer spring and used it to pull this spring up over the notch. Kind of backwards way of doing it but it worked. Another "dumb" question. I mounted the lower hand guard using the bolt on front retainer and it fit nicely, with just a little filing of the guard. However, I can't seem to figure out how to mount the upper guard on the new gas block. I saw one Youtube where the guy used an adjustable wrench to twist open the block retainers but this one doesn't seem to twist and I don't want to bust it. Actually got it at Desert Fox but looks just like this one. Ideas are welcome: http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/product_p/ak47-gastube.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) That's how I got mine on. Adjustable wrench and muscle. It is not uncommon the have to file a bit of material off the upper handguard. I had to on mine. First make sure the gas tube fits the rifle and make modifications where necessary. Then just file or sand the edges of the upper handguard a little at a time till you get a snug fit but not so tight you kill yourself twisting the upper HG into place. Edited March 11, 2014 by Semper299 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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