MR_22 35 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) So, I was out testing magazines tonight and I'm VERY pleased with the VEPR-12 converted mags. They are 100% reliable so far. I can't quite say the same of the 10-round SGM mag I tried. The VEPR mags chew up both cheap Walmart federal bulk packs and some Spartan 00-Buck I have for self defense. The SGM mag I tried had multiple failures to feed. All I had to do was pull back the bolt and release it and it was fine. I had 1 to 3 of these per full 10-round mags. My Saiga is still pretty new, so I'm wondering if it just needs to be broken in some more. Or maybe I can work on the mags. In any case, I'm EXTREMELY pleased with the VPR mags. I took my daughter shooting with me tonight and she took some video. Here's a couple of them strung together: http://youtu.be/iGFrqU00xzk And my 14-year-old daughter shooting the Saiga-12: http://youtu.be/26x3q3FliiA Fun shooting session! Edited September 4, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. That is one of the saddest things I've ever read. Something designed for the firearm is less reliable than a home-modded mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. Are these the new mags I sold you? You had FTF's with these mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. Are these the new mags I sold you? You had FTF's with these mags? Yup, but just one of them so far. I'm attributing it to a break-in period. The round is ready to go into the chamber, but just doesn't quite make it up into place. I think the bolt slams shut without grabbing it, but I'll have to try it again to confirm that. Pull the bolt back and letting it go inserts the round just fine. It didn't jam, but just didn't grab the shell. So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. That is one of the saddest things I've ever read. Something designed for the firearm is less reliable than a home-modded mags. Indeed, but I'm not quite sure of the cause yet. I have to look more into it. I'm pretty sure it is not because of limp wristing--or would that be limp shouldering? LOL. I haven't had the time I would like to shoot my Saiga since I got it. More investigation is needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Sad thing is that I bought a Saiga because of what seemed like a shit-ton of available mags for them in every shape and size as well as that famous Kalash reliability. But I of course got the Saiga that isn't a Saiga but more of a Sorta-Vepr except not completely so mags only work if they work but even the ones that should work might not work. Fuck me, is really what I'm taking away from this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Sad thing is that I bought a Saiga because of what seemed like a shit-ton of available mags for them in every shape and size as well as that famous Kalash reliability. But I of course got the Saiga that isn't a Saiga but more of a Sorta-Vepr except not completely so mags only work if they work but even the ones that should work might not work. Fuck me, is really what I'm taking away from this. Stop catastrophizing, the sky is NOT falling... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 I know its not, and I just realized that my base Saiga isn't 922® compliant so I can't legally use a 5+ round mag until i switch out my stock and forearms for the wood ones I really want anyway. Its more I don't want to "miss the boat" since I don't know what the import ban will do to the Saiga owning community. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 I know its not, and I just realized that my base Saiga isn't 922® compliant so I can't legally use a 5+ round mag until i switch out my stock and forearms for the wood ones I really want anyway. Its more I don't want to "miss the boat" since I don't know what the import ban will do to the Saiga owning community. Calm down. Getting your gun up to 922® compliant is not hard. You can use any magazine designed for the 030 or V12 magwells. You just need to fit them to your gun. That can be accomplished one of two ways. You can either leave your long latch in and file your mags or file your latch and not mess with mags with the thicker rear lug (ie. V12 mags). I would argue that you should leave your original mag catch alone and then fit the mags to your gun. The only thing you've missed the boat on were inexpensive factory magwell mags. I would suggest you hold out until CSSpecs gets the next round of V12 mags in and then file them to fit your gun or wait until he releases the 030 versions and not have to worry about too much fitting, if any at all. The other benefit to these mags is that they will help with the 922® bullshit. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Welcome to the headache-inducing world of home firearms modification. This disease is typically infectious, progressive, and incurable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Well, overall, even with the SGM magazine issues, I've been VERY PLEASED with my Saiga-12. I've heard others stories that make mine look like a dream. If I use the Saiga for self defense, I'll just use the VEPR mags and I'll be completely satisfied. Maybe I'll just stash 5-rounder around the house, like a shooter game, and I'll always have ammo nearby. LOL. (I'm only half kidding there.) Firearms are machines and sometimes machines have issues. That's just the nature of the beast. Edited September 4, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Welcome to the headache-inducing world of home firearms modification. This disease is typically infectious, progressive, and incurable. The doctors said the strain I have is terminal?! Lmfao. Is maybe the tip of the LRBHO catching the rim or interfering Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Yeah, if i can get my mother-in-law [brother's wife's mother] who is good with wood-working to make me a stock and forend i could get compliant if i put in an american mag or it not matter if i put the factory mag in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. Are these the new mags I sold you? You had FTF's with these mags? Also, to be fair, I should mention that both of these brands of ammo that I tested are low brass. I have not tried any high brass, but I'm thinking about buying a bunch of Herters 00-Buck and maybe some Herters Mutli-Defense, which includes one big ball and 6 smaller ones. Could be interesting. Cabelas has some on sale right now for a pretty good price, and with free shipping, plus a premium on shipping, because it's so heavy; so not free, but better than full shipping. See: http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1706750 Edited September 5, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 So grinding away at the Vepr mag is a better choice that grinding at the SGM mags so far? The SGM mags I got were designed for the Legion 030 Saiga-12, so no modification was required for them. I wish they were as reliable as the VEPR mags, but maybe they just need broken in. Are these the new mags I sold you? You had FTF's with these mags? Also, to be fair, I should mention that both of these brands of ammo that I tested are low brass. I have not tried any high brass, but I'm thinking about buying a bunch of Herters 00-Buck and maybe some Herters Mutli-Defense, which includes one big ball and 6 smaller ones. Could be interesting. Cabelas has some on sale right now for a pretty good price, and with free shipping, plus a premium on shipping, because it's so heavy; so not free, but better than full shipping. See: http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1706750 Now is a good time for GunFun to jump in and teach a lesson on how to use the DRAM chart. I think that herters is between 3 and 3 1/4 DRAM. A healthy S12 should handle it just fine but it's a marginal load. Hardly the "high brass" you think it might be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Now is a good time for GunFun to jump in and teach a lesson on how to use the DRAM chart. I think that herters is between 3 and 3 1/4 DRAM. A healthy S12 should handle it just fine but it's a marginal load. Hardly the "high brass" you think it might be. No doubt. It's cheap! What do I expect? LOL. But it's probably better than the Spartan 00-Buck I'm using now! And if I can get the Herters to work in the SGM 10-rounders, then it's good enough for now! If not, then I try something else. (No, I don't consider Herters the best stuff out there--or even good. I bought a box of .357 Magnum to try, but haven't shot it yet. It generally looks like practice stuff, but I'm not yet a fan.) Edited September 5, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Speaking of 922r. These guns have 12 parts right, I would assume that the magazine and follower of the russian gun count. The new SGM 12 rounders I got say that they count as 3 US parts. Doesn't that put me into compliance if I were to use them?Secondly, does anyone sell followers that actuate the LRBHO? I noticed that there is a channel that is in the mag and would actually fit the russian follower perfectly, except for two small legs that channel into the russian mag walls. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think the count is actually 15 Russian parts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I did a little more google fu last night and on the forums and the number seems to vary, people are saying 15, I see 17 parts off of a list of 20. So I'm a little confused. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I really hope its 15, more than that and I have to hope I can change out a Trigger or Bolt u____u; 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) Right? I'm planning on the full conversion anyways so the spooks in suits don't get upset, but that's gonna take some saving. Follow some advice on the forums, I have successfully modded one of my 12 rd sgms to fit and lock in perfectly, Ill be grabbing some snap caps and doing some preliminary testing, but it looks like these will be a nice inexpensive investment. Edited September 6, 2014 by Automatikjack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 I really need help taking apart the front end of my 030 Saiga if i'm going to ask my brother's wife's mum to try to make me wooden versions of the AK type forend the 030's have. I'll have my factory stock to show her how it connects to the body and can just provide her images of SVDs for reference maybe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 If you're gonna have some made, make a polish wasr forend/grip. Those are pretty awesome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 i just plan to give her the plastic 030 ones and a picture of an SVD for reference. If she can't do it I could try Ironwood for the forend but they say they won't fit, Legion told me they should. Then there is the Troup guy that makes "Saiga Scout Stocks" but i've heard a lot of bad stuff about that too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 I agree the SVD forend is pretty. Ill probably grab a rail system, so I can make mine as "evil" as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 I just need to find out how to take the front end apart as its rather different that the IZ-109 in that respect. Next comes the hoping and the praying XD 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 I would imagine it comes apart just like the vepr. Check this video out. It'll also show you a good way to separate the gas tube from the upper forend piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SfYmyxhTUw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Thank you so much! That showed right how to do it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Nice to see a couple new guys working it out. Keep up your searching and ask questions when your stumped. It's refreshing to talk guns on this forum again. I have a 040-05 clone. Jdeko, give it a google. What handguard are you looking at? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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