Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Compensating chokes?


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 20nickels

20nickels

    Carnivore

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 234 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska

Posted 01 March 2015 - 12:35 AM

I'm using a modified choke with Cobra's adapter and it works well but is there anything out there that compensates or effectively reduces recoil as well?  Maybe this?

http://www.basspro.c...product/56326/#

 

Open to suggestions, Tks ahead.


~Redneck Fatballs~

"With a true champion face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies." Coach K. Powers

"I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." K. Powers

#2 GunFun

GunFun

    Apparently, guy who has made way too many posts.

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,328 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington

Posted 01 March 2015 - 02:19 AM

No clue what works best, or how much effect you get with as little perpendicular vent surface area as they have but I suspect most of these are about the same.

 

This one looks OK too.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item51bd18c058



#3 20nickels

20nickels

    Carnivore

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 234 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska

Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:05 AM

Hi Gun Fun, There are a fair amount of turkey chokes that are vented/ported but few (maybe one, the Kick's) that have a modified constriction.  I suppose I could ask around if the turkey chokes of similair design reduce recoil these should too.  The recoil isn't bad, I'm just looking to gain an edge.


~Redneck Fatballs~

"With a true champion face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies." Coach K. Powers

"I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." K. Powers

#4 20nickels

20nickels

    Carnivore

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 234 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska

Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:26 AM

I think I'll pass after reading this about porting.

Chuck Hawks;

http://www.chuckhawk...tgun_recoil.htm

 

"This one has little basis, as there is so little gas pressure left in 12,000 PSI MAP (SAAMI maximum pressure) loads by the time the gas hits the ports that it can't do much of anything. The recoil reduction is minimal. Perhaps even sillier are ported choke tubes, which have even less pressure to work with. Drill enough holes in a perfectly good barrel, you will actually increase free recoil by a tiny amount, as you gun weighs a bit less.

Super-large extended choke tubes can also weigh a lot more than factory flush-mount tubes, and if they weigh enough they will reduce free recoil by our "one-to-one" ratio. Is it time to bring back the Cutts Compensator so we can all go deaf together? Porting as a significant recoil reduction method is just full of holes."


~Redneck Fatballs~

"With a true champion face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies." Coach K. Powers

"I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." K. Powers

#5 GunFun

GunFun

    Apparently, guy who has made way too many posts.

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,328 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington

Posted 01 March 2015 - 01:46 PM

After measuring and proving that diminished pressure or otherwise, a good comp reduces the free movement of an S12 by about 2/3 of the total travel*, I can discount the opinion of Mr Hawks on this matter. Simply put, the designs he is willing to consider do not have much vent area shaped to revector gas, so they don't do much. The chokes pasted above suffer the same issues, but are not comparable to comps like the monster, JTE competition, or molot gko1...

 

The military devised a formula for calculating this a long time ago, based off of perpendicular surface are, pressure, etc. More of any of the primary variables = greater reduction. small pressure and small vectoring = small reduction. 

 

 

*Tests were flawed but clearly showed substantial reduction for a variety of shapes. The hotter the ammo, the greater the difference. Here are some of the videos I took. I'll not call this attempt scientificly sound for generating quantative data, but it shows enough to easily end the claim that shotguns don't retain enough pressure for a brake to work.

 

https://www.youtube....s54WNHY0719c1ua

 

the TL/DR of the videos? each of the comps behaved more similarly than otherwise. 10 slot flash hider worked indistinguishably from nothing on the end. 15 pellet OOB remington 3" mags move about the same with the comp as 2 3/4" 9 pellet standard rem without, and the same applies for  2 3/4" 9 pellet standard rem with comp vs standard 3 dram fed bulk without. 3 dram comped to 3 dram uncomped doesn't feel noticibly different, but the rig showed a few inches less movement. Also competitors can get measurably faster split times.  So most of us will only get a barely noticeable gain with light loads, but if you shoot real ammo, it makes a real difference.


Edited by GunFun, 01 March 2015 - 01:53 PM.


#6 GunFun

GunFun

    Apparently, guy who has made way too many posts.

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,328 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington

Posted 01 March 2015 - 02:00 PM

for what it's worth, Chuck Hawks is a very good source of credible information on scientific analysis of patterning and things like that. He tests patterns and talks theory about comps. I respect his tests. His articles and methodology on that count are unimpeachable.



#7 Ronin38

Ronin38

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,392 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 01 March 2015 - 02:13 PM

Oh... recoil reduction. I thought you were going to say that anyone using a very tight choke was compensating for something.  :unsure:

 

:P


"I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life *were* fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?' So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."  -Marcus Cole

#8 GunFun

GunFun

    Apparently, guy who has made way too many posts.

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,328 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington

Posted 01 March 2015 - 02:43 PM

The other thing about chuck hawks' dismissal of compensators is also done considering the characteristics of light trap loads in very long barrels with very small comps (more vents than baffles or vectoring gills). In that combo, his conclusions hold up. He hasn't really looked at setups with hot ammo, short barrels and big brakes.



#9 20nickels

20nickels

    Carnivore

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 234 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska

Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:08 AM

After measuring and proving that diminished pressure or otherwise, a good comp reduces the free movement of an S12 by about 2/3 of the total travel*, I can discount the opinion of Mr Hawks on this matter. Simply put, the designs he is willing to consider do not have much vent area shaped to revector gas, so they don't do much. The chokes pasted above suffer the same issues, but are not comparable to comps like the monster, JTE competition, or molot gko1...

 

The military devised a formula for calculating this a long time ago, based off of perpendicular surface are, pressure, etc. More of any of the primary variables = greater reduction. small pressure and small vectoring = small reduction. 

 

 

*Tests were flawed but clearly showed substantial reduction for a variety of shapes. The hotter the ammo, the greater the difference. Here are some of the videos I took. I'll not call this attempt scientificly sound for generating quantative data, but it shows enough to easily end the claim that shotguns don't retain enough pressure for a brake to work.

 

https://www.youtube....s54WNHY0719c1ua

 

the TL/DR of the videos? each of the comps behaved more similarly than otherwise. 10 slot flash hider worked indistinguishably from nothing on the end. 15 pellet OOB remington 3" mags move about the same with the comp as 2 3/4" 9 pellet standard rem without, and the same applies for  2 3/4" 9 pellet standard rem with comp vs standard 3 dram fed bulk without. 3 dram comped to 3 dram uncomped doesn't feel noticibly different, but the rig showed a few inches less movement. Also competitors can get measurably faster split times.  So most of us will only get a barely noticeable gain with light loads, but if you shoot real ammo, it makes a real difference.

I can't watch the vids, buggy internet, but I'll take your word for it that these brakes work.  Anybody running these will be using a straight cylinder bore though.  Some constriction would be nice...

 

I've taken into account also that I'm using AA 1350 fps in a standard length barrel.  If anything will work a Kicks comp, this will.  I would have to consider signifigant costs vs. benefits to change setups.  Goods replies.


~Redneck Fatballs~

"With a true champion face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies." Coach K. Powers

"I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." K. Powers




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users