Paulry 50 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I don't think so. Let's face it, aftermarket mags are a bummer (don't matter what firearm). The ProMag is nothing more than an AK74 mag modded to take the .223 and to fit the stock Saiga .223 rifle. There are a number of problems in doing this. First the mag curves more than needed for the straighter case (which could cause case stacking). Leaving out the spring and finish issues (which are big). The biggest problem out of the bag is the poorly designed bullet guide. This problem is well documented. I like the posts showing the epoxy added to shore up the plastic tab they use for a bullet guide, but I know epoxy does not hold well with the mag material. So, without wasting any more time, let me say the one and only one reason to even type this: IT ADDS THREE 922R COMPLIANCE PARTS I guarantee in many of the photos of Saiga's with foreign mags, by using those mags, the rifles are out of compliance! This is a big problem but not discussed. The Surefires (which I have many) and the ProMags are all 3 parts 922r compliant. Unless you have a US follower or base plate in that Bulgy mag, you better have more 922r items in your rifle (with stock forearm, pistol grip and muzzle device). I have time to waste with swine flu and was going to do the epoxy move on a ProMag with a steel backup when I noticed the "Wall of Polymer" they used for a piss poor bullet guide, I noticed it was way too high and had no taper feeds for the bullet. I got out the small rattail file and went to work. I've documented what I found. It's no secret why everyone has the plastic tab break off, the damn bullet and case mouth slam right into it. That's when the feed angle is perfect, set lower and pow off it goes. The following photos document my findings and what I did to fix it. I'll shoot the modded mag and follow up a report. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) I don't have any issues with any of my 4 ProMags. and I use them in both my restored Saiga 7.62's with bullet guides...They ALL work flawlessly. Edited October 11, 2009 by Rockina Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) I screwed up. I should have included the .223 cal. in the title. The post is only about the .223. This is certainly a problem with that caliber. I have no Idea about the 7.62 version. Your input is valued. Can you confirm that with the cartridge loaded, does the 7.62 bullet hit above the bullet guide? (does the bullet slide over the guide?) One other good design in that caliber is the mag body curves correctly. Please reply. Edited October 11, 2009 by Fluid Power Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bohound 281 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I think the poster implies that they have installed a bullet guide on the trunnion. Of course the ProMag feeds fine! It's good to come up with a "fix" for the problem, but I really see it as trying to polish a turd. It's still a turd, even after the polish. Besides- you must be one of the really lucky suckers that bought one of these- my "tab" broke off almost immediately, then completely vanished as if by some evil ProMag dark wizardry. ProMags suck. The company sucks. Their spouses and children suck for associating with them. I HATE ProMags, and I don't use that word lightly. Thank God I found out at the range how truly inferior and useless ProMags are, instead of a life or death situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I can't argue your comments. Venting is free here. What's wrong with handling poop? I would not risk my life on these either! All I can say is, I sure made a major improvement on how it works and like it or not but I'm stuck with a few and I like a challenge. And maybe help a few others stuck with poop. At least I'm 922r compliant, are you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bohound 281 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I can't argue your comments. Venting is free here. What's wrong with handling poop? I would not risk my life on these either! All I can say is, I sure made a major improvement on how it works and like it or not but I'm stuck with a few and I like a challenge. And maybe help a few others stuck with poop. At least I'm 922r compliant, are you? I'd be compliant even without the mags, or even using eastern bloc mags. Yeah, they count as three parts- but so do Surefires. I'm running 5 of those, two ProMags that I won't just throw away, and I'm looking for Galil mags as an excuse to do the BG from Dinzag. I'd say there are as many "US" parts as Russian on my IZ 114. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 That's cool, I have a number of Galil's as well. I haven't installed Dinzag BG in my .223's only my 7.62. Brian's BG work great! I'm using Tapco mags to meet compliance with that and yes, they work but suck as they have to be fit with files to work. And that's with a rifle converted to use mil spec AK47 mags. The only thing I don't like about the Surefires is the bolt hold open on an empty mag. This is just not right for an AK design, that's my personal view. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
creature 0 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I noticed that as well. I bought three for $10 each when I got my 223. Took me two of the bastards snapping off for me to figure out the issue. Amazingly, just shaving down the cartridge guide with a box cutter cleared up the issue and my one remaining Promag works fine now. Fired about 120 rounds out of it. I MIGHT pickup some more Promags if they are still $10 each and do surgery on them, but for now I have Surefire magazines on order and a replacement trigger control group to replace it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 So, without wasting any more time, let me say the one and only one reason to even type this: IT ADDS THREE 922R COMPLIANCE PARTS I guarantee in many of the photos of Saiga's with foreign mags, by using those mags, the rifles are out of compliance! This is a big problem but not discussed. The Surefires (which I have many) and the ProMags are all 3 parts 922r compliant. Unless you have a US follower or base plate in that Bulgy mag, you better have more 922r items in your rifle (with stock forearm, pistol grip and muzzle device). I find your above statement to be false. The standard conversion is to replace the following with us made parts: 3 parts FCG, 1 part pistol grip, 1 part buttstock = compliant rifle with any mag. Also possible to substitue a piston or front handguard for any of those parts. the addition of a US made muzzle item is also possible if above conditions are met. Only those (silly looking) non-conversion rifles where the original trigger group is retained and a pistol grip is tacked onto the buttstock are in danger of non-compliance. I think this forum really encourages people to go all the way and complete the conversion, rather than dangle in the limbo of a quasi-converted non compliant carbine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 No, that's not what I meant at all. And I didn't mean for this to be a 922r discussion. Yes, your correct. 1) US grip 1) US stock 3) US fire control = good to go. I've Done many. Don't forget stock Saiga = 14 parts Add a grip = 15 parts (not part of OEM count) Add a comp = 16 parts (not part of OEM count) use a Romy folding stock or Bulg or Galil grip or Bulg comp = Bust US mags are an easy way to add compliance parts. Sure if you add a rod or US Spud flat it all helps. I know I could find photos that could be on the edge and I'm only talking about proper conversions. Not add on parts mods. As I said this post was only referring to the .223 ProMag. If you own a .223 Saiga you are aware of the limited selection for .223 mags. And maybe you want to keep your $40 Bulgy or hard to find Orlite in like new shape so you want to practice with and tear up the turd mag? What's wrong with that. I'm not here to defend the crap ass shit. I'm stuck with them too. I just like to milk a bargin just to see if I can. What the hell's wrong with that? Just trying to be helpful. Just go ahead and shit on me, easy to be a critic. Case in point, I put a PSL stock on a full conversion, now that only has 3 US compliance parts (FCG). (as I still use the front hand guard and gas rod) with that rifle (I've posted photos of it) I can put in a Surefire or Promag and be OK. Correct? If your stuck with a .223 Promag, look into this mod. If the POS bullet guide broke off, call Brian. That's It. Thursty Now and can't drink much with the damn swine flu. Comrade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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