nycGUNguy 61 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I've been reading the posts here for a couple of weeks now and recently aquired my very own Saiga 20 last week. I immediately started to make the necessary changes for it to match my SAR-10. I was reading the ejection problems with the shorter barreled S20s and adjusted my gas ports to match DANZIG's specs from his post: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=9817. I also opened my ports to 3/32" but I opened them all at the same time. I should have opened one at a time. I cut my barrel down to accomodate a 4 1/4" front sight/flash hider from www.fsuconnections.com to make the total length 19 1/4" with the fs/fh permanently attached via spot weld. I also moved the trigger group forward and changed the parts for US made items. I took it to the range today and was disappointed to find that the shells were not always ejecting, stovepiping so to speak, 95% of the time. I even made the mag modifications to reangle the shorter 2 3/4" shells in the 20x76mm magazines and at least they worked great. The ammunition I used was the Walmart Federal field and target 2 1/2 dram 7 1/2 shot shells. The gas setting of the piston was set on 2 and it was stovepiping. I switched the setting to 1 and the shells would not even come up but would try to re-feed into the chamber. I wonder if it is the bolt is not coming back far enough to engage the ejector? Or the holes aren't big enough? Anyone please advise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rusty 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Probably a combination of cheap ammo and a brand new recoil spring. I know my s20 was quite finnicky when I first started shooting it. Took a large amount of Winchester AA High Velocity rounds before she finally loosened up. Now she'll feed anything as long as I hold her tight. Now if you don't want to wait around for it to loosen up, you might contact Cobra by PM. I think he said he used a 1911 recoil spring in place of one of the recoil springs in his S20. But again, in my case, shooting the more expensive ammo for a bit fixed my stovepiping problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Rusty's right if you beat the hell out of her she will start to behave! And it doesn't hurt to take a short cut and replace the forward recoil spring with a .044 Colt 1911 spring with around 5 coils cut off of it. Do like Aegis did and put about 60 slugs thru it after that. His started cycling fine after about a half an hour of torture. BTW his is cut back to 16" I believe with a polychoke soldered on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Something to consider. I have 3/32" holes with a 19" barrel. Your barrel length ends where the ports in your hider start. I would think opening the ports more would be in order in your case. You may want to run a few boxes of higher dram loads and/or slugs on #2 first to accelerate break-in. Keep an eye on the rear of the trunnion where the recoil spring hooks in for damage. The spring will be difficult to remove if it gets hammered too much. Also, the last 1/4-1/2" of bolt carrier travel is really sticky, where the ejector engages the breech face, until it gets worn in. As Rusty said, others have had success with swapping out recoil springs, but I have not needed to go that route. I also haven't polished or greased anything in it other that smoothing the hammer where the carrier contacts it both ways. The G2 hammer has a parting line from casting that I always file down. Good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) I've been reading the posts here for a couple of weeks now and recently aquired my very own Saiga 20 last week. I immediately started to make the necessary changes for it to match my SAR-10. I was reading the ejection problems with the shorter barreled S20s and adjusted my gas ports to match DANZIG's specs from his post: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=9817. I also opened my ports to 3/32" but I opened them all at the same time. I should have opened one at a time. I cut my barrel down to accomodate a 4 1/4" front sight/flash hider from www.fsuconnections.com to make the total length 19 1/4" with the fs/fh permanently attached via spot weld. I also moved the trigger group forward and changed the parts for US made items. I took it to the range today and was disappointed to find that the shells were not always ejecting, stovepiping so to speak, 95% of the time. I even made the mag modifications to reangle the shorter 2 3/4" shells in the 20x76mm magazines and at least they worked great. The ammunition I used was the Walmart Federal field and target 2 1/2 dram 7 1/2 shot shells. The gas setting of the piston was set on 2 and it was stovepiping. I switched the setting to 1 and the shells would not even come up but would try to re-feed into the chamber. I wonder if it is the bolt is not coming back far enough to engage the ejector? Or the holes aren't big enough? Anyone please advise. Wow! You cut your barrel back to 15"?!? Actually, it shouldn't be THAT bad, though you will have to do some work to get that puppy cycling right. I would definately suggest doing ALL the modifications listed: polish and grease the rails; swap to the colt spring with 5 coils cut; grind down, polish, and grease the hammer so it's not catching the carrier; and break in the spring by shooting 50-100 slugs on gas setting 2 (be sure to use buffer so you don't hurt the internals). IF that doesn't work, you may have to open a 4th hole to allow even more gas (if you further enlarge the three holes you run the risk of having them run together into one BIG hole, and that's a bitch to fix). Depending on how many times you want to take the gas-tube retainer off, you may want to start small with the 4th hole and work your way larger until it cycles reliably or you may just want to start big and be done with it. The main problems with having too much gas are increased recoil and damaging the internals, but if you use a buffer and the correct gas settings you should be fine with the internals. Don't get frustrated yet, there's a lot that you can still do to get her runnin' smoothly. Post some pictures too, sounds like a nice little piece of work you got going. Also, be sure to keep the gas tube clean. If gun powder gums up the holes you have they won't do much good. Edited March 27, 2006 by AegisDei Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 What really sucks... is that you created a SBS out of your Saiga... then remanufactured a sporting arm out of an SBS... thats a big NO NO... The ATF could be pouncing on you like stink on shit... UNLESS YOU REMOVED THE BARREL... SHORTENED IT... WELDED ON THE BRAKE... and REINSTALLED THE BARREL... THATS what you did right?!?!?!?!? We all thought thats exactly what you did!!! cause thats the "law abiding citizen's" way of doing it!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 ...so technically you could weld on a hider then bore the barrel out of it? Hmmm... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 say what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 say what? You talkin' to me? or Indy? If me... Slip the 4 1/4" hider over the end of the barrel so it's flush at the muzzle end. Weld the receiver end in place (15" down the barrel). Bore the 4 1/4" or so of barrel out of the hider leaving the hider and remaining 15" barrel intact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 say what? You talkin' to me? or Indy? If me... Slip the 4 1/4" hider over the end of the barrel so it's flush at the muzzle end. Weld the receiver end in place (15" down the barrel). Bore the 4 1/4" or so of barrel out of the hider leaving the hider and remaining 15" barrel intact. Stupid phucking ATF. Talk about jumping through some hoops made of bullsh*t. Gotta pay $200 tax to have it an SBS for 5 minutes, gotta pay $70 shipping and $50 labor to send it off somewhere that can legally make an SBS, or gotta do some crazy scheme with boring out a chrome/steel barrel. Bleck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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