Bowhunter57 0 Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I'd like to purchase one of the Saiga rifles, but I'm not sure which caliber to purchase. I'll be hunting coyotes and groundhogs, so meat/ pelt conservation isn't a concern. In the Saiga .308 section, the owners there really priase the reliability and accuracy of their rifles. A .223 caliber would be easier to recover from the recoil for follow up shots. However, I'm NOT a recoil sensitive person, so this could be a "non-issue". My main concern is reliability and accuracy. Your opinions and experience is appreciated. Good hunting, Bowhunter57 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NedPepper 0 Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Both calibers can be very accurate. I'd go for the smaller round for the purposes you mentioned. Flat shooting and fast expansion for those targets. "Boom" is the word. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 For groundhogs a .223 is fine, but for coyotes, I'd prefer a 308. But don't listen to me, I'm biased toward the 308 and don't shoot either animal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bowhunter57 0 Posted May 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Thank you for the replies, gentlemen! I currently own a Savage in .22-250 and used to own a Remington 788 in .308. Both rifles are effective, but for predator hunting, I prefer a semi-auto action....just a personal preference. Perhaps I shouldn't have sold the .308, but my cousin has it and it will stay in the family. Anyway, I believe that you can't have too much rifle. So a .308 would fit the bill. I'll have to look into some bulk ammo, as I have no intensions of reloading for an auto-loader and always looking on the ground for the brass. Good hunting, Bowhunter57 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 If you ask me, I would consider the .223, and cheap mil or wolf ammo. If you use a bigger clip (or are a good shot) you can empty it onto target out to range and hit with every shot. plus the ammo is WAY cheaper than .308. wolf ammo is uh...12 bucks for 100 rounds at my dealer here, 85? for a 1000 round case. 308 is like 30 bucks for what are they? 170 round, i think?, battle packs..If you are a serious shooter, spend the extra cash on a AR and get a saiga shotgun. you will enjoy the AR's accuracy and quantities of aftermarket parts. up close and personal though? ... you cant beat alternately loaded slugs and 00 buckshot, in my opinion. I hate wild dogs, man. I have used a 12 gauge on them when i have had to, myself, but I never had to chase them when it was time to thin some of them out. them things LOVED my chickens when i was a kid, i tell ya. maybe try two of those as bait. catch yourself a groundhog and chain it to a pipe with a collar...they make great lawnmowers AND they dont come back when you let them go a couple of days later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Jesus, Bvamp you're crazy! I'm a city kid, and all that seemed a little off to me. But what do I know, I hunt old beer bottles! I saw these guys at my local shootin' spot were shooting eggs with there Rug. 10/22's. they were cool when you hit'um. why the AR over the siaga, for .223? seemed like alot for such a small bullet, when you consider there's like 5 steps to a total ak breakdown. I will get one of the .308's because of the low cost, semi, reliability thing. I'm not totally sold on the saiga .223, though seems important to me to own this cal. weapon. Is the mini -14 an accurate weapon - I've heard the contrary. Sorry guys i was just browsing through, and saw Bvamp's crazy prattle, and had to say somethin'! no offense Bvamp! just razzin' ya! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Bowhunter57 Why choose? Start with.223 then get .308. The .223 should be more than adequate for groundhogs and coyotes,plus is light,cheap,plenty accurate unless your going for long (over 200 yards)shots . .308 is better for bigger game,longer distances. I plan to get the whole collection eventually! (honest santa I've been VERY good!) G O B P.S. I hate ar's! way to much money for way too little weapon (my opinion anyway) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 If you are going to be killing predators, and can lure them into close range as a pack, I would do it. Bring plenty of lead. Saigalova: I would tend to go with the AR because of the non-existant recoil, plus the aftermarket parts thing, PLUG the cheapness of the ammo for it. I can shoot from a bench fairly quickly with mine and put all my rounds into my target out to ranges of about 100 yards, with rapid fire....this would be an ideal characteristic if one were to try to "limit" a local wild dog problem, if you ask me. As for the mini-14, from the guys I know with them, they are a little less accurate than one might think, but would be fine out at 100 yards or so as well. dont expect a rapid fire group out of it or a saiga 223 like you can get with an armalite though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bowhunter57 0 Posted May 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 G.O.B., You're a man after my own heart. "why choose" Why choose indeed, my friend. I may start with the .308 based on some of the replies that I'm getting and some of the posts that I've been reading on the .223. I'm not reading a high percentage of encouraging material concerning accuracy with the .223 caliber, in the Saiga. In the .308 forum, those guys are "singing" the praises of their rifles and its' accuracy. I also believe, "you can't have too much rifle". So, with respect to that statement, I'll opt for the .308 caliber in the Saiga. The higher cost of the ammo is just the price I'll have to pay for owning one. It's not an issue for me. Siagalova, I don't know anyone with a Mini-14 that hasn't had to soak a lot of money into their rifle to get the accuracy of an AR. More and more of the AR companies are producing accuracy options (match triggers, sight options, heavy barrels, barrel lengths, etc.) to achieve the accuracy of a bolt rifle. In fact, I know several guys, in my area, that are shooting Bushmasters and getting sub M.O.A. accuracy at 100 yards, with factory rifles. I would touch a Mini-14 with an eleven foot pole. Thank you for the replies! Good hunting, Bowhunter57 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 That's exactly what I've heard about them (The mini-14)! thanks guys. Yea the bushmaster I shot had little to no recoil. and if I could've gotten used to the peep sites, it probably was a very accurate gun - it felt tight (mechanically) in my hands! But I'll tell ya, It felt too mushy - like driving a catillac, when I'm partial to feeling the road. just my opinion, and like i said - not too much experiance with the .223. thanx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 308 is definately overkill on groundhogs in my opinion. I tell ya, 223 can be an extremely accurate and potent round in the right hands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Bowhunter57 "you can' have too mutch gun" I whole hartedly agree. My next SAIGA will be the 30-06 if it becomes available. If not then .308. Have you ever tried 30-06 accelerators on groundhog?Talk about immediate kill!! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Onepoint 0 Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 My 2cents, I have the Saiga in 223, as well as a couple ARs and a FAL. The 308 is great round, but it is not as good as the 223 for varminting IMO if using the same length barrels. 223 shoots flatter, and is slightly faster. And my experience leads me to believe the cheap 223 ammo is a lot more consistent and accurate than the milsurp 308. As far as spending more for an AR, you have to spend quite a bit more to better the Saiga, a bull barrel & freefloat tube makes a pretty significant differance, especially at medium and long range, but other than that the 16" ARs I have shot have not been any better than the Saiga, and some of them have issues with types of ammo that the AK doesn't. Not preferring one to the other myself, they each have quirks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saiga69 0 Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Greetings, You need to look at the hunting laws in your state. I understand that you are not hunting for meet. However, the game department looks at it differently. In Colorado you cannot hunt prairie dogs and small game with anything larger than a 224. Coyotes are considered small game. By the same token, you cannot hunt bigger game with less than the 224 (I believe). If you are looking to kill varmints I would definitely go with the 223. Something else to look at that may catch the game wardens eye is the FMJ bullet. They are great for plinking, but not legal in most places to varmint hunt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bowhunter57 0 Posted May 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 saiga69, Thank you for the friendly advise about the "regs", but here in Ohio you can shoot coyotes with anything from bow & arrow to .22 rimfire to shotgun (any gauge) to .338 Lapua and in any type of action. As for ammo, it would be in a hunter's best interest to NOT use FMJ ammo, due to skips and ricochets. Again, there is no regulations for ammo choices. Good hunting, Bowhunter57 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glockzilla20 0 Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 If you do your part the 223 will do the job for both coyotes and groundhogs. But if you don't have a 308 at all, get the 308. Everyone should have at least one 308, be it a semi, bolt, lever action whatever Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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