LESchwartz 9 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 (edited) Edited April 27, 2006 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 (edited) Since the days of the old 1994 AWB, ATF has said that t-hole stocks have pistol grips. What they don't have is a separate pistol grip. And it's the separate pistol grip that is prohibited on AK's with more than 10 imported parts. The question I posed in this letter was focused on counting . . . it would be unwise to read much more than that into ATF's reply. What is unusual is that low-cap WASR's are legal with drag stocks, but low-cap Saigas are not. I've been told that ATF has a "point system" for what they will allow . . . maybe different point values are assigned to double-stack low-caps verses single-stack low-caps . . . what is clear is that ATF views Saigas slightly different than other AK's. Larry Edited April 27, 2006 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kyrinn 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Interesting. What about US-made drag-stocks, presumably, such as the Fiberforce? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 (edited) What about US-made drag-stocks, presumably, such as the Fiberforce? It's still counted as two parts . . . however, it's not the number of US-parts that's important, but the number of imported parts that are used. For example: A OEM Saiga has 14 imported parts. If you replace the imported buttstock with a US-made drag stock, you have decreased the imported part count from 14 to 13 (replace the FCG and you should be legal). However, If you replace the imported buttstock with an imported drag stock, you have increased the imported part count from 14 to 15 (replace the FCG & gas piston and you're still one part short, and will need to see BattleRifleG3 for a handguard). I posted this letter because I have seen a few board members displaying their "Saiganovs" with what look to be Romanian drag stocks on them . . . If that is the case, they may have too many imported parts . . . Larry Edited April 27, 2006 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 It's extremely wishywashy of them to make that ruling (make me wonder if someone else asked if you'd get a different answer), as you can IMPORT a rifle in that config (romak-3, wasr-10, etc...), but you can't put one together. This really is kinda nuts. There seems to be no consistency. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 (edited) It's extremely wishywashy of them to make that ruling (make me wonder if someone else asked if you'd get a different answer), as you can IMPORT a rifle in that config (romak-3, wasr-10, etc...), but you can't put one together. This really is kinda nuts. There seems to be no consistency. It's not just that "you can't put one together" . . . T-hole Saigas can't be imported either . . . I've been told that ATF has some sort of point system for pistols. If they have a similar thing for rifles, I imagine that Saigas score slightly differently than other AK variants. Larry PS: For more information on ATF's point system for pistols, see: http://www.glockfaq.com/models.htm#basic. Edited April 27, 2006 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 What makes a saiga different from any other Ak based weapon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 (edited) What makes a saiga different from any other Ak based weapon? Who knows? Maybe single-stack verses double stack mags . . . Someone could write a follow up, reference WASR's, and then ask about their Saiga ruling . . . it might give us some insight. Larry Edited April 27, 2006 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) NOTE: THIS THREAD IS TWO YEARS OLD. I POSTED AN UPDATE BECAUSE IT IS STILL REFERENCED BY VARIOUS FOLKS Saigas are now imported with T-hole stocks. I think it could be reasonably asserted that ATF has changed their mind on T-hole equipped Saigas. I think the counting of T-holes as two parts still stands. However, YMMV, and someone should write ATF, reference my letter and ask for clarification. Larry Edited April 23, 2008 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those WASRs rebuilt here by Century? I thought they added parts, like FCG, piston, receiver and now (with the new rules) barrel. If so, with all those new parts (6) you can even use the original muzzle device. . . Edited April 22, 2008 by Ax-Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) Well, if that isn't just a steaming load of crap, considering that Saigas are currently imported in a configuration that he says would be illegal for importation.... Wonder if all you guys who bought the .308-2 can now expect a letter or a visit from the ATFU demanding that you turn over your legally purchased rifle? Edited April 23, 2008 by Netpackrat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) Guys, don't get excited. This thread is 2 years old. The fact that they are importing them with the thumbhole tells you it's legal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those WASRs rebuilt here by Century? I thought they added parts, like FCG, piston, receiver and now (with the new rules) barrel. If so, with all those new parts (6) you can even use the original muzzle device. . . WASRs have the following US parts: 1) trigger 2) hammer 3) disconnecter 4) pistol grip 5) gas piston 6) (optional) muzzle brake ( this depends on if you get a standard WASR-10 or a "military style" WASR-10/63 with threaded barrel and bayonet lug and all that evil stuff ) Century KIT BUILDS have US made barrels, but not the WASRs. Edited April 23, 2008 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Oops, didn't check the date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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