jasonstewart750 0 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I'm looking into a Saiga-12 to use as a multi-purpose hunting semi-auto shotgun. This is what I would use it for, in this order- 1. Grouse 2. Ducks and Geese 3. Various other small game 4. Deer w/slugs I would like to have multi choke options. How are the sights on these guns? What barrel length? How is the weight compared to traditional auto loaders? Thanks!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I'm looking into a Saiga-12 to use as a multi-purpose hunting semi-auto shotgun. This is what I would use it for, in this order- 1. Grouse 2. Ducks and Geese 3. Various other small game 4. Deer w/slugs I would like to have multi choke options. How are the sights on these guns? What barrel length? How is the weight compared to traditional auto loaders? Thanks!!!!! I'd suggest a polychoke and you'll have your choice of restrictions for a good price. Sights aren't bad, though the site radius is shorter than most auto-loaders. I've still never had a problem with the rib or rifle sites though. I've used my 12 and 20 with rib and sights and had no problem with skeet. IndyArms uses his 20ga and consistantly shoots 20+ in skeet (maybe trap?). If really worried, you can always get a front site tower and increase the site radius to even further increase accuracy, but it's by no means needed. Any barrel length will work. It mainly depends on the stock that's used and personal preference. Barrel length is mainly a factor in swing, not so much in ballistics or accuracy. It'd probably not hurt to keep it a bit longer for hunting (21-23"), which would keep recoil minimal. If you don't like your swing, you can always add weights to improve it. I think it's lighter than most autoloaders that I've encountered. If nothing else, it kicks a lot less. Often auto-loaders are designed a bit heavy to counter some of the kick needed to cycle them. The inertia operated ones kick like a donkey with slugs or steel-heavy, and if you get a gas-operated auto-loader plan on spending ~$1000 unless it's a Saiga. Also, many auto-loaders will not cycle light loads as reliably, so you'd have to use the more expensive and more bruising heavier loads just to take down small game. You won't go wrong with a Poly-choked Saiga. Just my $0.02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonstewart750 0 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Thanks for the info- Who would be a good resource for getting a Saiga-12 w/ the poly choke you described? I would have to have it shipped, FFL i assume? Would i want one w/ the hold bolt open option? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Thanks for the info- Who would be a good resource for getting a Saiga-12 w/ the poly choke you described? I would have to have it shipped, FFL i assume? Would i want one w/ the hold bolt open option? I'm sure Tromix/Tony Rumore could make it happen. Or you can purchase a S12 and ship it strait to polychoke and they can ship it back to you (I think) without using a FFL. Or you could purchase it via FFL, have it shipped to Polychoke, then have them ship it back to your FFL. Check with Polychoke for the legalities of shipping...they're a great company, very helpful, and very knowledgeable. They'll help you find the best way to make it happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonstewart750 0 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Stanleyproshop.com might have what i'm looking for. 24" barrel, bolt stop, muzzle adapter, sight base, and a 5 rd mag. I assume I can put chokes in this gun.... any thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Stanleyproshop.com might have what i'm looking for. 24" barrel, bolt stop, muzzle adapter, sight base, and a 5 rd mag. I assume I can put chokes in this gun.... any thoughts? Ask them exactly what the muzzle adapter does and (if) its threaded what is it threaded for? OEM? Remington? etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Stanleyproshop.com might have what i'm looking for. 24" barrel, bolt stop, muzzle adapter, sight base, and a 5 rd mag. I assume I can put chokes in this gun.... any thoughts? Hrm...I'm not even sure what most of that is. 24" barrel will be fine for hunting...and if you want to cut it down, you can. Polychoke will do it too if you choose to go that route. Bolt stop is probably a bolt hold open? A good thing to have just for convenience. Muzzle adapter is maybe a factory saiga screw on choke? You can get hokes in them, but with the chrome lined bore it takes a different setup than some gunsmiths are prepared to deal with. So be careful and be sure they know what they're doing. Sight base...? Not sure. Sounds like a good gun for what you're looking for...best question is, how much? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Put me down for a "nay". You can hunt anything with any shotgun, but some are going to be easier to do well with than others. I don't thing the Saiga will be easy to excel with. Don't know how much you've shot shotguns? If not much, maybe it will work. I started with clay pigeon games (skeet, little trap, sporting clays, etc). I learned to use that long rib and bead, and the swing of a 28 in bbl. I can't hit crossing birds with my Saiga worth beans. If you end up with the notch/post you might be good for slugs (if they'll zero), but I don't think I could get the mini rib/bead accurate enough for longer slug shots. YMMV, and if you haven't learned the feel of 99% of the shotguns, you might be ok. FWIW, I believe that it's sold as a hunting shotgun in Russia (as well as used by the "tactical" agencies), so it can be done. For hunting, I love my 1187. Mine is stone cold reliable, and is real soft shooting (more important in clay games when you go out and burn 1 -2 hundred rounds a day). VA doesn't have weather extreme enough to make it choke. For "tactical" applications I love the Saiga. That's my .02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonstewart750 0 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Can anybody explain the different sights these have; and what options exist? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Off the top of my head .... "adjustable rib": windage driftable in the back, screw up and down in the front, not enough range to zero elevation of mine and several friends Saigas's. There's a bead in the center of the front, and two ears on the outside of the rib in the back for a pretty loose sighting picture Many folks don't like these, and I've heard that are no longer coming into the country this way Notch and post. IIRC, you can windage drift the rear. Many get these to zero. But turns your shotgun into more of a rifle, as far as aiming goes. Not good for targets that you would lead (skeet, ducks, etc). Better for tactical, trap, slug hunting, etc. Side rail allows use of a dot, scope, or whatever (you can get a side mount with a picatinny rail on top). But this puts the sight up a bit. Front sight's that attach at the muzzle can be had from Russia or from Krebs. (these are like AK sights, reamed out for a 12ga bbl). Rear combo can be a leaf or peep(Krebs). Tromix has G3 sights that he offers, but I don't have experience with these. Halo rail allows foward mounted optics, and has built in sight. And you could mount a laser (the geese won't know what hit them heheheheheh). Right now, I'm using the rear ears from the rib, and the front sight from Russia and it aligns quickly (important to me) but doesn't have the precision. I also use a Kobra red dot (current preferred solution. IMO, all of these sighting options except for the rail, (with it's own issues) are good for precision shooting, but not as much for wingshooting. If I wanted a gun to do it all, I'd set up with a pump or semi remington and have 2 bbls. Or just one bbl, but mount a flip down rear sight on the rib. It's better for your hunting (MHO) but won't be as fun as the saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 If I wanted a gun to do it all, I'd set up with a pump or semi remington and have 2 bbls. Or just one bbl, but mount a flip down rear sight on the rib. It's better for your hunting (MHO) but won't be as fun as the saiga. The swing and rib of other shotguns are definately preferable for hunting, but I would say a Saiga would be adequate. My argument is that for the money, I think the Saiga is the best valued auto-loaders, especially if it has the rib sight for hunting. However, I do agree that other guns may be preferred for hunting, but for the value you can't beat the versatility of the Saiga. I'd suggest the new Beretta Optima (i think is the name) for $1400 or Remington 1187 for $700 as alternatives. But these would not have the poly-choke, which is an excellent option for hunting, and they would not be as reliable with lighter loads (preferred for other small game). And the 1187 will be less fun in terms of recoil. I think it's a question of fun/value/versatility vs. best suitability for hunting. If you're a hardcore hunter, definately go with a full rib-sight gun. If you're just a shooter that wants to go hunting occasionaly with a versatile weapon, I'd go Saiga. But just my $0.02...I'm a shooter that would gladly take my Saiga hunting. But if I were a hunter, I'd rock an 1187 or Beretta. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 the saiga12 I own has the basic rifle sights on it, which hold low and right, has no choke, is 18.5" barreled, and the muzzle resembles an improved cylinder diameter wise. I take birds with it just fine, and its taken two deer so far. I should say it is 2 for 2 with deer so far. the only thing i wont use it on is turkey, because of the lack of shot pattern compression. its a great gun. one major thing you need to remember with it, as a practical hunter, is the finish on it, and the fact that is has a chrome lined barrel. this means that you can take it out in any weather, and really not even have to wipe it down when you get home. of course you should, but its not like you will get rust on it, because of the finish. combine that with the fact of the lessened recoil due to the action type, and the price, well, it is worth its price by FAR. it takes a bit to get used to wing shooting with it, because you dont see the barrel because it is so far below the sight plane, but I myself have shot a great deal, and I probably have shot 50 or 60 different shotguns by maker. everything from a parker to those old ten gauges that used to cost a dollar from sears wy back when. the saiga is my preference by far. if you have a threaded muzzle for choke tubes, you can fire basically anything with it, and use it for most any application. the added bonuses include the fun factor, and the "what the hell is that" factor in mixed company. it will be the funnest arguement youve had in a long time with gun guys, when you tell them that it is a 12 gauge kalashnakov. guys have a difficult time believing that one, from my experience. the gun your shop is selling that you found, sounds like it has a rib site rail on it. also, you can use a regular AKM type side rail mount, and put an optic on there or red dot, for accuracy with slugs. I put a mount on mine after having it for a couple years, and was shooting one hole groups at 35 yards or so with slugs, which isnt too bad, but isnt all that far away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonstewart750 0 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Thanks again for all the information. The sku number of the one I'm looking into is IZ-107. I still need to verify the "muzzle adapter". Tonight in my bow stand I'll ponder the purchase. Overall, it sounds like an awesome shotgun. Even if i end up using my 870 express for waterfoul, i'll be OK. (I'm still going to try with the saiga though!) I think the shorter length of the saiga may be slightly better for the dense cover I hunt grouse in. Hey, the price looks right to boot!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 The saiga 12 is a great shotgun period. I love mine and would be devastated if i was ever forced to part with it. If nothing else i think everyones collection should have one, just because of how versatile it is and it is also a great price point product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonstewart750 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 well.....just ordered it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Kmoore you are only one small step away from having a very accurate rear sight with your setup. Just get a replacement Glock pistol sight from somehwere ( I got a couple free from a guy at the gunshow who sells and installs night sights for people at the shows, I'm sure you've seen him and his wife's booth, they are German I think, He's a super nice guy and will most likely give you one if you ask). Just take a razor knife and cut the sight down to fit snug in the U notch. You will have to take a little off the bottom too to get on paper but once it's tuned you will love it. I've got the same setup on my tac 12 with the rusmil front. Paint your sight pin white and it rox! Another thing you can do if you want really accurate slug shots is cut an even smaller notch down into the center instead of trimming the bottom. Off the top of my head .... "adjustable rib": windage driftable in the back, screw up and down in the front, not enough range to zero elevation of mine and several friends Saigas's. There's a bead in the center of the front, and two ears on the outside of the rib in the back for a pretty loose sighting picture Many folks don't like these, and I've heard that are no longer coming into the country this way Notch and post. IIRC, you can windage drift the rear. Many get these to zero. But turns your shotgun into more of a rifle, as far as aiming goes. Not good for targets that you would lead (skeet, ducks, etc). Better for tactical, trap, slug hunting, etc. Side rail allows use of a dot, scope, or whatever (you can get a side mount with a picatinny rail on top). But this puts the sight up a bit. Front sight's that attach at the muzzle can be had from Russia or from Krebs. (these are like AK sights, reamed out for a 12ga bbl). Rear combo can be a leaf or peep(Krebs). Tromix has G3 sights that he offers, but I don't have experience with these. Halo rail allows foward mounted optics, and has built in sight. And you could mount a laser (the geese won't know what hit them heheheheheh). Right now, I'm using the rear ears from the rib, and the front sight from Russia and it aligns quickly (important to me) but doesn't have the precision. I also use a Kobra red dot (current preferred solution. IMO, all of these sighting options except for the rail, (with it's own issues) are good for precision shooting, but not as much for wingshooting. If I wanted a gun to do it all, I'd set up with a pump or semi remington and have 2 bbls. Or just one bbl, but mount a flip down rear sight on the rib. It's better for your hunting (MHO) but won't be as fun as the saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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