RangerM9 1 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 349 guns seized at home U.S. suspects man of illegally dealing firearms at shows By JOHN DIEDRICH jdiedrich@journalsentinel.com Posted: April 23, 2007 Federal agents seized 349 guns, $20,000 and other items during a search at the home of a rural Wisconsin man suspected of illegally dealing firearms at gun shows and selling the key part of a fully automatic rifle, according to a federal search warrant. According to a search warrant served April 15, James Schrader, 67, of Wild Rose, northwest of Oshkosh, sold a receiver for a machine gun and a tool to make semi-automatic guns into machine guns to informants. The warrant also says Schrader, vice president of the Central Wisconsin Gun Collectors Association, sold two guns to an undercover agent from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The search warrant alleges that Schrader was dealing firearms without a license, using gun shows as his marketplace. People can sell firearms at gun shows without doing background checks required of dealers as long as they are "hobbyists" making occasional sales, federal law says. Contacted Monday, Schrader said all the guns taken were part of his personal collection. He said he gave up his federal gun dealer's license more than 10 years ago because the rules were too burdensome. Until February, he had a "curio and relics" gun license that allows him to sell only older guns or collector's items, not the handguns he is accused of selling to the agent. Schrader said he attended about eight shows a year, selling a couple guns per show. "I have gone to gun shows like a lot of different guys, looking for deals," he said. "I don't want to make myself look bad because I am not bad." Schrader, who said he doesn't make his living off guns but wouldn't reveal his occupation, admitted he sold a lower receiver for an AR-15 rifle but thought it was semi-automatic, not fully automatic. The lower receiver is the gun's key component. Schrader said he bought it from a friend, who purchased it at a gun store. "What I did was stupidity," he said. It is legal to buy a machine gun, but it requires a lengthy federal background check and expensive license. A fully automatic weapon fires constantly by pulling and holding the trigger. Semi-automatic weapons require the shooter to release the trigger between shots. The search warrant says Schrader offered a Bushmaster .223-caliber receiver to an ATF informant for $200 on Oct. 14 at a gun show in Fond du Lac. The informant, who is not named in the warrant, was wired to record the conversation of the deal. Schrader told him the receiver would operate as a machine gun, the warrant states. The receiver was tested by ATF and confirmed to be fully automatic. The informant later bought a tool from Schrader designed to make a semi-automatic gun fully automatic, according to the warrant. An undercover ATF agent bought two handguns from Schrader at a December show in Green Bay and a January show in Fond du Lac, the warrant says. Schrader displayed 15 to 18 firearms at his table at the shows. "The agent was never asked for any identification by Schrader or about his criminal record," it says. ATF agents visited Schrader's home in March after learning a relative had stolen more than 30 guns. The agents told Schrader that as a license holder, he was required to report the crime to the ATF. Schrader kept his guns, including a Thompson machine gun, in a 15-by-30-foot steel-door vault. Schrader said the agents were "casing" his house for the April 15 raid. He said he was stopped on the highway by a half-dozen agents, who took him back to his house. Schrader said all 349 guns taken were collectibles. "It is not uncommon for people to have that many guns," he said. Schrader has not been indicted but he expects to be. "We are just waiting for charges," he said. _____________________ Sounds like this guy new better and still did it, deserved to get busted. He's making life harder for the rest of us law-biding gun owners. Seems to not be putting up much of a fight so far, like a man who knows he's caught and guilty. Me....i just want his vault!......my safe is getting crowded! Now a legal question for any license holders out there..... hypothical situation - I know someone who may be looking to liquidate a large family collection of firearms, the owner of the guns is deceased, the family knows little to nothing of guns. Can i legally help them sell the collection off? Obviously if i go through FFL to ship out of state that is fine, but can i arrange FTF transfers in state without being a dealer, or can i sell them at gun shows FTF (they are not my guns, i'd be selling them for someone else, they are getting the money not me, am i considered a dealer? I'm not doing it as a commercial venture, just helping sell off private property. As mentioned this is purely hypothtical right now..... I may be in position to help with a sale like this in near future, but I want to make damn sure i'm not acting as a dealer without a license if i do so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keyser223 0 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Perhaps, he knew what he was doing prior to the sale, but offering a full auto receiver for $200 sounds like he was under the impression it was semi. I'd think knowingly having a full auto receiver would command more of an asking price than that. Then again, they state he told them it was capable, so who knows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 hypothical situation - I know someone who may be looking to liquidate a large family collection of firearms, the owner of the guns is deceased, the family knows little to nothing of guns. Can i legally help them sell the collection off? Obviously if i go through FFL to ship out of state that is fine, but can i arrange FTF transfers in state without being a dealer, or can i sell them at gun shows FTF (they are not my guns, i'd be selling them for someone else, they are getting the money not me, am i considered a dealer? I'm not doing it as a commercial venture, just helping sell off private property. State laws may restrict sales FTF sales. Does your state require pistol permits? If so, be sure to get one. If not, be sure to get a copy of their driver's license at the least. I would suggest that if you help sell them, you act only as a gratuitous agent for the executive of the estate. Basically, arrange FTF deals on behalf of him/her, and if possible, make him/her conduct the actual sale. I would assume you would not be considered a dealer--you'd be a promoter or an agent of a principal. If you do it for profit, then you might be considered a dealer. But "gifts" unrelated to the sale of the firearms might be ok. But that's just a guess, it's not official legal advice. You might could try purchasing all the guns, then selling them, but straw-sales of firearms are illegal and this would be more risky than trying to act as a promoter/agent. Just my $0.02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Please define "straw-sales". I've seen/heard the term before, but have no idea what actually defines a sale as such. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 My understanding of "straw sale" involves intent. If someone else buys a firearm (and fills out the paperwork) with the intention of selling the gun to another person...that is a straw sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Perhaps, he knew what he was doing prior to the sale, but offering a full auto receiver for $200 sounds like he was under the impression it was semi. I'd think knowingly having a full auto receiver would command more of an asking price than that. Then again, they state he told them it was capable, so who knows. A full-auto with a LEGAL sear would be worth much more, but a rigged-full-auto wouldn't be worth a shit to me. I wouldn't buy it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted April 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Yeah, gonna avoid the straw sales. don't think it will be a problem to sell them FTF, we don't need pistol permits, FTF is legal in the state. Not even sure if they will want me to do this for them or not. will just have to wait and see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Maybe you could post a list of the guns for sale, HERE... and maybe that would help you get rid of a lot of them... and then THEY could do the actual "selling" and shipping out, and you just helped get the word out that they were available, and WHAT was available... Ya never know... you might sell a few or none, but at least you could try.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted April 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Maybe you could post a list of the guns for sale, HERE... and maybe that would help you get rid of a lot of them... and then THEY could do the actual "selling" and shipping out, and you just helped get the word out that they were available, and WHAT was available... Ya never know... you might sell a few or none, but at least you could try.... great minds do think alike..... not to worry, should this come be, this forum will likely get first opportunity at the items. Would likely post in batches so as not to get overwhelmed and cause delays in service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5knives 0 Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 (edited) In the FYI category, there were a total of 9 ATF busts at the Fonf du Lac show two weeks ago, and one at the Waukesha show last Saturday. Lengthy details but it "SOUNDS" like most of the guys arrested deserved it, supposedly one selling guns off the books to guys who failed the background checks, and one in possesion of an unreistered "Street Sweeper". Most were unlicensed guys, buying and selling from the "private collectoion" table. Agent 1 sells a firearm to the table for a very low price, and 30 minutes later Agent 2 offers to buy it to fill in his collection at a 3-400% profit. Been using that one for years and they get guys everytime. Thats dealing in firearms without a license Silly because everyone knew there were agents active at both shows. Regards, Edited April 26, 2007 by 5knives Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted April 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 In the FYI category, there were a total of 9 ATF busts at the Fonf du Lac show two weeks ago, and one at the Waukesha show last Saturday. Lengthy details but it "SOUNDS" like most of the guys arrested deserved it, supposedly one selling guns off the books to guys who failed the background checks, and one in possesion of an unreistered "Street Sweeper". Most were unlicensed guys, buying and selling from the "private collectoion" table. Agent 1 sells a firearm to the table for a very low price, and 30 minutes later Agent 2 offers to buy it to fill in his collection at a 3-400% profit. Been using that one for years and they get guys everytime. Thats dealing in firearms without a license Silly because everyone knew there were agents active at both shows. Regards, thanks for the info. I almost went to the waukesha show last weekend, but was doing clean-up day work at my local range then had to work around the house...(bought my S-x39 there about 2 months ago.. Impressed to see they are that active at the shows! where you at in WI? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5knives 0 Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 In the FYI category, there were a total of 9 ATF busts at the Fonf du Lac show two weeks ago, and one at the Waukesha show last Saturday. Lengthy details but it "SOUNDS" like most of the guys arrested deserved it, supposedly one selling guns off the books to guys who failed the background checks, and one in possesion of an unreistered "Street Sweeper". Most were unlicensed guys, buying and selling from the "private collectoion" table. Agent 1 sells a firearm to the table for a very low price, and 30 minutes later Agent 2 offers to buy it to fill in his collection at a 3-400% profit. Been using that one for years and they get guys everytime. Thats dealing in firearms without a license Silly because everyone knew there were agents active at both shows. Regards, thanks for the info. I almost went to the waukesha show last weekend, but was doing clean-up day work at my local range then had to work around the house...(bought my S-x39 there about 2 months ago.. Impressed to see they are that active at the shows! where you at in WI? Currently on the South Milwaukee border (The city of South Milwaukee, that is.), planning and getting ready for a move to Western CO late summer or early fall (I will NOT cross the rockies between October and April. Sold a chunk of my collection, British and American Enfields, Swedish Mausers, Russian and Finnish, etc. Couldn't resist picking up a Saiga .308 to complete the family of 12, 20, .223 and x39. Absolutely love my VEPR .308 but scoped it's a tad heavy for much hiking. Expect I'll be equally fond of the new Saiga. AK systems WORK! Had a few too many long guns, Military and Sporting to transport, but what I'm keeping will have some utility out there. I've noticed I can see a lot further there and I suspect the game and the varmints can too. Somehow 35 Remingtons, 30-30's and 45-70 seem a tad short range. Expect I'll be at the July show trying to peddle a few things, but that'll probably be my last one in WI. Problem with CO is that all the big shows are in Denver and I detest Denver about as much as I do Milwaukee and Madison. Way to much PC going on all three places. Course, being old and crotchety, I don't like anyplace very much. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted May 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 I'm up in the falls area....45-70 sounds like fun....but i think you are right, tad short range for out there these days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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