The Ban is Over!!!

[smonska 0]

The assault weapons ban just expired today, does that now make it legal to modify AK mags to fit saigas? I wonder what the ETA on high caps will be before they enter production for saigas and rugers again?

[Siagalova 0]

just 'cause this thing is over (yahoo!!!), don't just go all hog wild! there are still things that have to be sorted out in your state, and they still have to have a number of us made parts, I think. write somebody, and ask questions locally TO BE SURE! not -- ALL BETS ARE OFF- is the case! watch out!

I'm giglin' like a little school girl though!hehehehe

[jon elia 0]

if the ban said you cant put ak mags into your saiga cuz they wont work in the original gun, then now that the ban has died, i like died more than expired, then it would seem very logical that you can do it now. the question was can you do it and the old answer was no because of the 94 ban not because of other things, so do it. i got one i need to fix up too

[Kwicko 8]

I guess my questions would be more like:

 

How long until the 30rd clips are (widely) available in the US? Will they be full 30-rounders, or will they still be a 10rd clip in a 30rd body?

 

Do we still have to us "x" number of US-made parts on the Saiga? If so, how long 'til there are commonly-available, good-quality, good-fitting US-made parts such as flash suppressors, pistol grips, skeleton stocks, etc., that are made for the Saiga?

 

Of course, if the price of AKs goes down (and it definitely should), it might be easier to just buy a new AK instead of "converting" a Saiga...

 

Still, the end of the ban is good news for those of us who enjoy our weapons and AREN'T in a gang.

 

Mike

[PM2790 0]

Maybe it will help to think of the 1994/AWB as the Cosmetic Features Ban- Folding stocks, threadedbarrels, flash hiders, etc. That went away. What did not go away was the 1989 Import Restrictions. So- to 'convert' a Saiga to look like an AKM you are allowed no more than 10 foreign made listed parts in the finished gun. A factory stock Saiga has 15 parts. It is generally acknowledged that the parts to swap for US made are: Buttstock and pistol grip (2 parts), Fire control group (3 parts), Gas piston (1 part), Mag followers and floorplates (2 parts). If you choose to thread the barrel for a brake or flash hider, then that must be US made also. This only deals with federal laws/rules. It is up to you to be aware of your local or state regulations.

[Gandalf 0]

Maybe it will help to think of the 1994/AWB as the Cosmetic Features Ban- Folding stocks, threadedbarrels, flash hiders, etc. That went away. What did not go away was the 1989 Import Restrictions. So- to 'convert' a Saiga to look like an AKM you are allowed no more than 10 foreign made listed parts in the finished gun. A factory stock Saiga has 15 parts. It is generally acknowledged that the parts to swap for US made are: Buttstock and pistol grip (2 parts), Fire control group (3 parts), Gas piston (1 part), Mag followers and floorplates (2 parts). If you choose to thread the barrel for a brake or flash hider, then that must be US made also. This only deals with federal laws/rules. It is up to you to be aware of your local or state regulations.

PM2790,

 

I actually think a stock Saiga comes with 14 parts. If you convert it to a thumbhole/choate/dragunov stock you only have to use 4 US parts.

 

Putting on a pistol grip separate from the buttstock is adding one part to the total, hence you have to make sure to use 5 US parts in that case. You are right about how a muzzle accessory also adds to the count, so we have to be careful there too.

 

Anybody correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

So, if I understand this correctly, I could do the following legally:

1. Put in new US made fire control group (3 parts)

2. Put US made floor plates and mag followers into all my mags (2 parts)

3. Install Russian/Romanian/German/Polish/etc. buttstock

4. Install US made pistol grip (1 part)

5. Install US made muzzle break (1 part)

 

The Saiga would now have 16 parts with 7 of them US made and 9 imported. The danger, however, would be the magazines. I'd have to either stick with ONLY using my own magazines with the US parts, or make very sure that any other mags I use also have US parts. Otherwise the imported part count would jump to 11.

[smithmonsters 0]

May I add a lame question. I would never do anything do risk the possibility of going to jail or getting a fine , but do you really think they would take apart you gun and check? If they did how would they know who made the parts? Dont the us parts look just like the russian parts?

[Siagalova 0]

Just the shear looks of the gun, might prompt a confrontation like that. I did get questioned one time! because I knew the laws and were familiar with the amount of us parts, all I got was a record check. I was also patient and nice, and the whole thing was on a freindly level - it could've turned bad like that in a minute.

 

what would probably happen would be confiscation, where they could take it back to the station and investigate the whole thing, then you'd have to prove this! I don't know what kinda charges it would be! If it was a fellony you'd have to give up the rest of your aresonal! my advise would be to just do it, keep your reciepts.

 

getting pulled over on the way to your favorite shooting spot - might turn UGLY!

[Gandalf 0]

what would probably happen would be confiscation, where they could take it back to the station and investigate the whole thing, then you'd have to prove this! I don't know what kinda charges it would be! If it was a fellony you'd have to give up the rest of your aresonal! my advise would be to just do it, keep your reciepts.

 

getting pulled over on the way to your favorite shooting spot - might turn UGLY!

Well said.

 

I plan on taking pictures of the parts I buy complete with receipts. The packaging will probably say something to the effect of "made in USA". I also plan on keeping the old parts as evidence. I've noticed that buttstocks made in the USA sometimes have "US" stamped on them. I wouldn't be surprised if US mag floorplates have something similar stamped on them.

 

Keep your documentation in order, and it should be easy proving that you're compliant with the law. A quick look over the gun would probably be enough to resolve concerns, especially if "US" is stamped on visible parts.

[Siagalova 0]

good idea! hopefully It'll never be that you have to prove yourself, every minute of every day. I think it's abssolutly messed up that we even have to worry about this sort of thing. a gun is a gun is a gun! who the hell cares what or why! the libs think that assualt weapon means fully auto! and that criminals are out gunning the police with these weapons. I think full auto is a serious waste of bullets, I'd take a semi-into battle!

sorry -the media is having a hay day with this awb sunset thing -and everybody doesn't know ONE F'N thing about the issue............i'm so pissed! gotta catch myself veering of course!

[Kwicko 8]

I get the sneaky feeling that the whole "X number of US parts" is one of those feel-good compromises made by politicos (as was the entire ban when you get right down to it). One of those things where they're sitting around in smoke-filled back rooms, with one guy saying, "Well, I don't think we should allow people to modify these weapons at all." Another guy, probably from an industrial state, would pipe in, "Well, if we *do* allow modifications, we should specify American-made parts. My people need jobs!" And so it goes...

 

I'm fairly liberal myself, but I still enjoy my guns. It *did* drive me nuts watching the media cover the issue, and get it completely wrong at every turn. My favorite was Diane Sawyer interviewing - or trying to grilll, more accurately - Wayne La Pierre from the NRA. She kept badgering him about how these "guns that shoot over 700 rounds per minute" were going to be flooding our streets. To top it off, ABC used the footage of that North Hollywood bank robbery, where the bad guys looked like they'd watched "Heat" a couple dozen too many times. La Pierre tried to correct her - TWICE - and made his points, but she just couldn't accept it and get past the fact that the guns used in that case already WERE illegal (full-auto machine guns in the hands of the Wrong People), and those aren't the kind of guns that are now legal for sale. I tell ya, I wanted to throw a brick through my TV set - or shoot it with my (semi-auto and fully legal) Saiga!

 

Mike

[aka108 0]

If the ban expiration sticks, the Saiga as you know it will become history and Izhmash will be shipping semi-auto AK's that will not require any modifications or other fooling around. Just give things some time.

[Siagalova 0]

The thing people don't realize is that these guns and the manufacturers make modifications to these guns to make sure that they are not ABLE to be converted into full auto. the AR-15 especially!! those guys put extra metal in their recievers.

these poeple are crazy. no one will let the gun people speak! they get villianized! it's crazy!

[Gandalf 0]

If the ban expiration sticks, the Saiga as you know it will become history and Izhmash will be shipping semi-auto AK's that will not require any modifications or other fooling around. Just give things some time.

Actually, I don't see any major changes in Saiga rifles for some time. Remember the '89 import law and its parts requirements. Russia can't ship AK rifles to the US in normal configuration, hence we get "Saiga" versions.

 

What Izhmash could do is officially partner up with an American importer that then adds the US parts. We would then see prices close to Vepr prices. I'd guess at least $450+ (remember, American parts + American labor).

 

I bought my Saiga .223 for $230. For about $130 I can easily convert it to a more classic pistol grip configuration.

Kvar buttstock + grip $50.00

RPBusa trigger group $30.00

Dinasystems muzzle brake $30.00

shipping $20

 

If you're willing to go without a muzzle accessory, you can do it with $100

 

Either way, with a little elbow grease I'm saving myself about $100 or more.

[Siagalova 0]

did anyone find a cool way to do the muzzle break? now that we can, I wouldn't mind tryin' one. it would be anyworse, I'm just not sure how much it will effect recoil and climb.

[Gandalf 0]

did anyone find a cool way to do the muzzle break? now that we can, I wouldn't mind tryin' one. it would be anyworse, I'm just not sure how much it will effect recoil and climb.

I understand Dinasystems has an adaptor that will fit Saigas. Joeken also had a push-on muzzle break for the Saiga, but I prefer the ability to screw it on and off for cleaning.

[NedPepper 0]

"To top it off, ABC used the footage of that North Hollywood bank robbery, where the bad guys looked like they'd watched "Heat" a couple dozen too many times."

 

Yea.. I saw that too. I would bet the average Joe Citizen thinks this ban was all there was between safe streets and gangs of robbers carrying full-auto Ak47s through their neighborhoods. Nothing like alittle mis-information and dramatic footage to excite the viewer. The last footage I saw on my local news concerning the upcoming ban deadline was local law inforcement in the background and a table full of weapons that looked like an Iraqi weapons stash had just been seized! I got all excited at the idea that they seem to be suggesting. Cool..anti aircraft guns will be allowed when the ban expires! Yeesh.

[Siagalova 0]

if you don't think that is how the media and whatever issues there "intrests" have tried to steer us with other issues - let this be a wake up call! this is excatly how it is done. little misinformations, enough to where we aren't paying attention (like this awb issue), and we tend to believe - because we don't know any better.

I'm not certain it's a "conspiracy" type way of steering us, but make certain the news and the media isn't completely bias! they will always suttley take one side or the other. before you know it, you are beleiving a lie, or a gross one sided opinion - because we aren't paying attention!

let this be a lesson grasshopper! heheehe