Opinions wanted on Russian folding stock vs ACE folding stock

[Hawkeye 0]

Hi,

 

New to these boards and first time Saiga-12 owner, though not new to AK-types. Looks like a lot of good info here.

 

I have a regular fixed stock Saiga-12 and was interested in getting a folding stock.

 

I'd prefer a solid folding stock but all I'm finding is skeleton stocks.

 

I found several places selling a Russian folding stock with pistol grip. Also, ACE makes a folding stock and pistol grip for the Saiga-12. Anyone have an opinion on them?

 

In looking at the photos, the Russian one appears to stick out of the back of the receiver further and I don't think I care for that.

 

My preference would be for a hinge directly flush with the rear of the receiver but I think that would require moving the trigger guard and trigger forward to make room for the pistol grip. I don't know that I could do that properly.

 

Thanks in advance for any opinions,

 

Dan

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Here's another option for you. SPAS-15 stock with a Tromix modified ACE folding mechanism.

You would also need the ACE internal adapter block to mount it.

 

 

[Hawkeye 0]

Thanks, that looks more like what I had in mind.

 

Problem is I've visited the Tromix site and it says they're not taking any orders, even on parts, until September (I think it was Sept).

 

The ACE internal adapter block you mentioned, is that what ACE call their AK Internal Receiver Block?

[frick74 0]

I have one on an unconverted Saiga, fit and function are fine, I do think it sits a little to high to use open sites, but works great with a red dot scope.

 

Without the scope, I tend to be a point and shoot type anyway, but its not an issue.

[Hawkeye 0]

I have one on an unconverted Saiga,

 

 

Which one do you mean, the Russian or the ACE?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

There is no comparison between the unconverted style folders from Ace or the Russian one, to any style stock that's installed on the properly converted S-12. It's a no brainer once you have held one.

[frick74 0]

Sorry, the ACE folder.

 

And, I gotta dispute the no brainer claim.

 

10 minutes and your done, and its done at home with a screwdriver and an allen wrench.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

A)Ace+US made=compliant!

B)Russian+Made in Russia=

C)Tromix stock+US made+Compliant=

 

 

Key, A&C are correct, but C is better.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Sorry, the ACE folder.

 

And, I gotta dispute the no brainer claim.

 

10 minutes and your done, and its done at home with a screwdriver and an allen wrench.

whatever floats your boat I guess... Forgot to mention that it's illegal to just screw that thing on there though...

[frick74 0]

I didnt realize he was asking for an explanation the legal technicalities involved, just what other users opinions were on the stock, my bad.....

 

BTW, doesnt installing an Ace folder then used with AGP US mags bring the gun into compliance?

 

 

 

Also heres a recent topic on part suppliers for non conversion changes. The dragunov non folder in the third post is pretty sexy, if you must have a fixed pistol grip.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18353

Edited July 27, 2007 by frick74

[Hawkeye 0]

Sorry, the ACE folder.

 

Thanks frick74. Just seeing picutres, I like the ACE better then the Russian. Looks like the pistol grip fits closer to the frame.

[Hawkeye 0]

A)Ace+US made=compliant!

B)Russian+Made in Russia=

C)Tromix stock+US made+Compliant=

 

 

Key, A&C are correct, but C is better.

 

Oh I agree, I'd much rather have a custom Tromix folder arrangement. Just looking into my options to see how much I want to spend.

[6500rpm 670]

Yet one more option that I've only seen Matt at C&S Metall-Werkes use is this FAL stock that I presume he mated to an ACE folding mechanism. I can tell you this, it put the gun and sights in a very natural shooting position and had a very nice recoil pad. DSA has them for sale, less the folding mechanism and whatever modification neccessary to mate with an AK platform gun, in the $40 something dollar range. If I were building another S12, I think I'd look at mating the stock with, an ACE folding mechanism, and Tony's back plate. Look for pictures of Matts gun and you can see what it looks like mounted up, but it doesn't do justice to how it feels shouldered.

Edited July 27, 2007 by 6500rpm

[frick74 0]

Thats one hell of an idea 6500, I always like the look of those stocks, but, never bothered as my FAL is more of a GI shooter, than any type of a sniper or tactical rifle.

Edited July 27, 2007 by frick74

[Etek 32]

I like the Russian stock as sold by Saiga-12.com. It shortens the length of pull quite a bit, is well constructed, and clears the side mount scope and mount perfectly.

[mccumber1916 1]

I like the Russian stock as sold by Saiga-12.com. It shortens the length of pull quite a bit, is well constructed, and clears the side mount scope and mount perfectly.

 

that stock mess up your parts count though?

[Etek 32]

I like the Russian stock as sold by Saiga-12.com. It shortens the length of pull quite a bit, is well constructed, and clears the side mount scope and mount perfectly.

 

that stock mess up your parts count though?

 

Note also that section 922® only bans "assembly", it is not

a crime to possess.

922® also has an exception for 'Sporting' or 'Home defense'.

That's how I read the law but I have plenty of US made parts so no worries on my end.

[akdog 3]

Edited July 28, 2007 by dog

[Etek 32]

[frick74 0]

You know, does anyone actually know of anyone who has ever had a weapon seized for a 922 violation?

 

Im not espousing you go do anything illegal, but, I personally have never heard, or seen, this occur.

[akdog 3]

Edited July 29, 2007 by dog

[Azrial 1,091]

Edited July 29, 2007 by Azrial

[Juggernaut 11,054]

[akdog 3]

Speculation... How would this work if you were doing a mod yourself. you have all proper parts

to be installed, but have not completed the mod... Is the firearm you are working on then in violation??

 

To keep it compliant during modification, just keep it disassembled enough until its ready to be assembled again. A pistol grip conversion naturally requires you to remove the factory trigger group before you can install a pistol grip. By removing the magazine thats 3 parts.

The buttstock is one more. Trigger ,hammer,and disconnector are 3 more parts.

 

 

 

 

The main point is to modify you want to remove enough foreign parts. Once off the gun, do not replace them with other foreign parts and everything is compliant.

 

Saiga 12 has 13 foreign parts in stock condition - remove at least 3 parts to be compliant pick 3: butt stock, gas piston disk in shotgun versions, trigger, hammer, disconnector, magazine body, magazine follower, and magzine floor plate.

 

Saiga rifles have 14 foreign parts in stock condition remove at least 4 parts to be compliant pick 4: butt stock, gas piston connected to bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, disconnector, magazine body, magazine follower, and magzine floor plate.

Edited July 29, 2007 by dog

[Azrial 1,091]

Speculation... How would this work if you were doing a mod yourself. you have all proper parts

to be installed, but have not completed the mod... Is the firearm you are working on then in violation??

The law deals with assembly, not possession.

 

Nothing I posted was speculation, Firearms may be illegal for many reasons, filed off serial numbers, too short barrels, or too short overall length. Even illegally converted to full auto. No matter if state law mirrors federal law or not, these weapons are contraband, and can be seized by any LEO. I am not speculating, I know, I have seized them.

 

But there was always some other reason present to to be there and come in contact with the illegal weapons. But, I am not everyone, some cops may seize based strictly on observation of said contraband.

 

My point was why put yourself and your property, and possibility your liberty in jeopardy for failing to comply with 922®?

[Juggernaut 11,054]

[6500rpm 670]

It's cheap enough and easy enough to make your gun(s) compliant, for the price of a couple boxes of shells, why dick around and take the chance of getting cought dirty. To me it's a non-issue.

[Azrial 1,091]

......Feel free to abuse your authority and kick in my door anytime you wish....

nothing here to challenge your authority or anything lying around breaking any laws

Just and old jarhead who likes guns....... Perhaps we should focus more on terrorist and drug dealers

vs some jarhead who still needs to drop in a G2 trigger so he can finally take his other S12 to the range.

Just "Sweating" the details....

 

A whole hearted thanks for all those who serve our country/ military/LEO ect....

Thanks, but if I was the type of man looking to punish honest people for such an infraction, would I be here encouraging their compliance with this ridiculous piece of regulation? I am a double life member of the NRA, several other pro-2nd Groups. I was just pointing out that a simple traffic stop could easily wind up with someone permanently losing a firearm, or worst, simply because it did not comply with 922(r.)

 

People, not you, are always rationalizing whether 922(r.) matters because they are unaware of any prosecutions under the law. Even if they avoid prosecution, I was pointing out that there are several other terrible problems that they might have to face before their misery is over.

 

Dog seemed to be stating only federal agents had the power to seize under 922(r.), and I was just pointing out any local or state officer could seize contraband, and keep it, whether charges were ultimately brought or not.

 

Would I. that depends. If I was a street cop and was investigating a known ex-felon junkie staking out a liquor store, with a converted S-12, a ski mask and gloves in the middle of summer, yes.

 

A guy at the local range, no, but as a friend of the 2nd I would point out to him that he was taking foolish chances with his liberty and property.

 

For the record, I have never abused my authority in a long career, and hate with a passion those who do.

 

6500RPM I would love some more information on adapting the DSA X-Stock to the S12. I may have to write C&S!

Edited July 29, 2007 by Azrial

[akdog 3]

Dog seemed to be stating only federal agents had the power to seize under 922(r.), and I was just pointing out any local or state officer could seize contraband, and keep it, whether charges were ultimately brought or not.

 

I just meant that Federal agents definitely could. 99 percent of State/Local LEOs are most likely not aware of all the vague import regulations. Most ATF field agents do not know what 922r is about either. If they did, and actually enforced it, pawn shops and gunshops would be alot more diligent about compliance.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Sorry if I took anything out of context as well....

At the time, I felt threatened by your statement.

 

My rights mean Sooo much to me.

NOTHING angers a law abiding gun owner than those outside the law.

they threaten ALL our rights..