I'm new to Saiga's

[Joeddox 1]

I've been looking all over the internet to find out where Saiga's are legal and illegal. I live in New Mexico and I'm pretty sure they are legal but would like to make sure before a purchase one. Does anyone know? If it matters I'm looking to get a Saiga-12 Shotgun.

 

Also I've been looking on this site and I can't find where it says the best deals are for Saiga's. Like I said I'm looking to get a Saiga-12 Shotgun and I've seen prices around $440.

 

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

[nalioth 405]

They're legal in New Mexico (most everything is)

 

See this thread for where to get them: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=19199&hl=

[Joeddox 1]

Edited September 9, 2007 by Joeddox

[kresk 10,063]

Barrels on an S12 are not meant to be changed. It can be done but is a major undertaking. If you have a threaded barrel that is not internally choked (by the factory) then you can add external chokes (0,0= cylinder; 0,5= modified; 1,0= full.) You can change stocks, handguards, FCG's, PG's, (add FSB's), all under the proper conditions i.e. 922r compliance (except FSB isn't part of compliance issue.)

[Joeddox 1]

How many companies make saiga's? I know RAA does and Izhmash. But are is there a company that produces lesser quality guns or should I not worry about who produced it.

 

Is there anything that should I worry about since I'm close to purchasing one?

Also you have to change 3 parts for US made ones to comply with the law?

Edited September 10, 2007 by Joeddox

[Navy87Guy 1]

How many companies make saiga's? I know RAA does and Izhmash. But are is there a company that produces lesser quality guns or should I not worry about who produced it.

 

Is there anything that should I worry about since I'm close to purchasing one?

Also you have to change 3 parts for US made ones to comply with the law?

 

Only one factory- Izhmash - produces the Saiga line. RAA is just the US distributor -- it was EAA before them. You shouldn't have any concerns about purchasing a new Saiga - it will be top quality.

 

You can legally use the S12 out of the box with the factory 5-rd magazine. If you want to use larger capacity mags (like the AGP 10-rounders) then you will need to modify the gun to comply with 922R. An S12 with threaded barrel has 14 parts that count toward 922R -- so you need to replace at least 4 to be compliant. US mags (like AGP) count for 3. If you are going to do a conversion, you won't have any problems finding ways to meet compliance. The fire control group is 3 parts, and if you use US-made buttstock and pistol grip, they count as 1 part each.

 

Jim

[Joeddox 1]

Thanks Jim,

 

I would like to use a 10 round mag, but I'm not planning on using a conversion. I would just like to buy one that I can put a 10 round mag in and use at the shooting range. I've also seen a 20 round magazine drum but haven't been able to find a seller online. Are they legal? I was told pretty much everything is legal in New Mexico...

 

Also not to be a smart ass but how do "they" know if you actually replaced parts to comply with the 922R law?

If I was to buy an S12 and want to use a 10 round mag, the 10 round mag counts as 3 parts and I could add on a buttstock cushion which counts as an additional 1 part. Which would comply with the law right? What happens if I take that mag off and switch to the one that it came with? All of a sudden is that shotgun illegal..?

 

Threaded barrel refers to an adjustable choke?

[Navy87Guy 1]

Thanks Jim,

 

I would like to use a 10 round mag, but I'm not planning on using a conversion. I would just like to buy one that I can put a 10 round mag in and use at the shooting range. I've also seen a 20 round magazine drum but haven't been able to find a seller online. Are they legal? I was told pretty much everything is legal in New Mexico...

 

Also not to be a smart ass but how do "they" know if you actually replaced parts to comply with the 922R law?

If I was to buy an S12 and want to use a 10 round mag, the 10 round mag counts as 3 parts and I could add on a buttstock cushion which counts as an additional 1 part. Which would comply with the law right? What happens if I take that mag off and switch to the one that it came with? All of a sudden is that shotgun illegal..?

 

Threaded barrel refers to an adjustable choke?

 

Davidson's just started selling 20 round drums...they are a business member here on the Forum.

 

A recoil pad does not count as a compliance part -- it's the actual buttstock itself.

 

The threaded barrel issue is a contentious one. The "safe" thing to do is count it -- but a lawyer could probably argue that just because you can install something doesn't mean you will. If you install a PolyChoke, it's a moot point. If you want to be in the "it doesn't count if it's not installed" camp, then you only need 3 parts and the AGP mags or Davidson drum count.

 

If you use the factory mag - as long as you haven't added an "evil" feature like a pistol grip or folding stock - then you're 100% legal.

 

As far as checking for compliance...well, the odds are slim and in some cases it would be your word against theirs unless the parts are stamped "US". The prevailing wisdom (enforced on just about every reputable board) is that we don't discuss skirting the law -- because they just feeds into the anti's agenda.

 

Jim

[Joeddox 1]

I think this is my last questions

 

I keep seeing Sight Base, and Muzzle Adapter on some places to buy. I'm pretty sure sight base is for scopes and such just like a rifle correct? Muzzle Adapter I believe is for a choke correct?

 

So if I do buy a saiga with a muzzle adapter can I fire it without putting a choke on or will that damage whatever is at the end to attach a choke?

 

Anyone had a link to some affordable chokes or are they all at least 100 each?

 

Thanks for dealing with my noob questions.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Joeddox

[psyched 0]

How many companies make saiga's? I know RAA does and Izhmash. But are is there a company that produces lesser quality guns or should I not worry about who produced it.

 

Is there anything that should I worry about since I'm close to purchasing one?

Also you have to change 3 parts for US made ones to comply with the law?

 

You can legally use the S12 out of the box with the factory 5-rd magazine. If you want to use larger capacity mags (like the AGP 10-rounders) then you will need to modify the gun to comply with 922R. An S12 with threaded barrel has 14 parts that count toward 922R -- so you need to replace at least 4 to be compliant. US mags (like AGP) count for 3. If you are going to do a conversion, you won't have any problems finding ways to meet compliance. The fire control group is 3 parts, and if you use US-made buttstock and pistol grip, they count as 1 part each.

 

Jim

 

Are you specifically addressing New Mexico law or federal law? I thought the question of legality of 10 rd mags on unconverted S12 had long ago been answered on this board and by the manufacturer?

 

See link: link

[Navy87Guy 1]

[psyched 0]

[Etek 32]

Psyched,

 

We are not lawyers here and I certainly will never pretend to be one.

922® 'Seems' to apply to Saiga shotguns and rifles and everyone I know at least makes a good faith attempt to comply.

Indeed it seems quite silly that a guy with a certain AK variant with correct parts count using USA made magazines suddenly finds himself a criminal if he picks up a foreign made mag.

The folks at BATFE have better things to do (We hope) but you might find yourself in hot water if you cross certain lines.....Especially if you knock off a Quickie-Mart. And they WILL get you on 922® if they want to if local charges need 'Upgrading'. Or if the Feds are in a bad mood.

Please read the Federal Regulations.

[Navy87Guy 1]

No, psyched is right -- I just can't read straight! My eyes kept glossing over the "fixed" part of item #3.

 

While we all try to help, but sometimes the advice you get is worth exactly what you paid for it!

 

Thanks for keeping me straight,

 

Jim

[akdog 3]

I think alot of people initially miss the big picture about 922r.

Its not based on the 1994 crime bill. Its regulating the assembly of any semiauto long gun when it uses 11 or more parts. If you bought an American made AR15, and started swapping original parts for foreign made parts up to the point that you suddenly had 11 or more foreign parts, you just violated 922r and thats with an AR. Its not just limited to imported guns. Its about parts configuration. Apparently the ATF uses 922r against pumpaction shotguns too. Search out the letter posted about Benelli shotguns and mag extensions, collapsing stocks, and pistol grips. The same applies to Chinese 870 knock offs that people put mag extensions on. The same applies to foreign made 10/22 knock offs.

Alot of people look at it like if a dealer sold it to me it must be legal. Think again.

Edited September 13, 2007 by dog

[Etek 32]

Note that the law says ASSEMBLY not POSSESSION. But I won't be the one to test case the law.

 

I can see the judge in court now trying to figure it out...OK The Plaintiff says he was using a 10 round USA magazine and says the BATFE agent put the 5 round Russian magazine in and the law says 'assembly' not possession but the law says 11 parts..no...10, no no more than 10 but the BATFE says a screw on choke is a muzzle device so that makes it...but the law is the law...was this a machine-gun?...no? Then why are we here?

 

Guilty...take it up with Supreme Court.