KySoldier 2 Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Perhaps this topic is too heated and I shoudn't have started it.... make a saiga 12 drum!: all that stuff about bush did this and kerry did that....you're preaching to the choir man, no one will disagree with you here....but you can vent if you want, we all do it sometimes. Bvamp: Good job pissing people off, they don't like to hear people messing with their rights much, but you're certainly entitled to voice your opinion. Personally I don't see a problem with individual sales...even at gunshows...so long as it is truely individuals and not a dealer selling stuff on the side as an "individual." As for the buying your daught er a 22 thing....I see that all the time when I'm in the hunting section of wal-mart, people come in and get a 22 or muzzleloader for their son...its pretty freakin obvious that's what they are doing...but really, even though its illegal to purchase a gun for someone who can't do it themselves, nobody's going to prosecute as long as the parent is responsible and doesn't let the kid run around with it. My first gun came from wal-mart...Ruger MkII, and I was in middle school. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 ky: you dont HAVE rights anymore. they just let you think that you do. if the govt. wants to arrest ya, they will FIND something or MAKE IT UP! seen it with my own two eyes. only the rich are immune to this. they actually have to DO something wrong to be charged, and often they buy thier way out of it. all Im saying is there needs to be a solution. you know what they want to do right? you all cant tell me YOU dont see it? well I do. they probably are looking for an excuse to close gun shows. I think they found it, and arent addressing it, so that something will happen and they can say "oh look! see! STOP THOSE EVIL SHOWS!" how is that protecting me and you from terrorists or criminals. protecting us is making a free nics check at the damn door on your way out. not leaving the hole open until they get someone shot and have thier goddamn reason to ban shows. I cant believe that Im the only one that sees this. I'm sorry if ive offended anyone, it honestly wasnt my intention. I respect the citizens protecting and serving me and you and them, and respect the military protecting and serving me you and them. Im sorry if anyone that fits that bill was offended by any of my statements that are meant for the "higher-ups" in this country. i was not referring to you. anyone thats been here a while knows i stir up a shitstorm. we have a right to assembly, and are supposed to be free to speak our minds. that is how I view this forum, as a meeting of my peers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 i would have to agree on that being able to bo the check would be a great thing, but i am aganst removing the privit sales, NC did thet when i was down there, gun prices jumped $20 or $30 when it went in to effect. if you HAVE to go through a dealer, it is easer to stop legal sales, just let the citys sue the shops. Gery In did this a while back, the sute was thron out of corurt, after all of the area gun shops had to mount a defence. ine shop agreed to stop selling handguns, the local pawn shops stoped dealing with guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 wouldnt it be SO much easier if there were a free nics check on your way out? everyone would be happy. NO, cant do that. cant have a fee the show pays to the state or county call center that accepts the ATF nics checks. too simple. they want to close em or they woulda done that already. all I know? if i get shot by a crook with a gun from a gunshow, im sueing the government for not adequately protecting me IF im still around to do so. closing gun shows is against people's rights, but the free nics check could be implemented TOMORROW and be totally legal. I smell a rat. emclean, if YOU would say you are ok with it, i think most guys would be huh..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
make a saiga 12 drum! 0 Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 (edited) If I were a criminal looking for a gun I would go buy a few news papers and look for people selling guns in the classified adds. Go to their house and buy it in person. I dont know about where you live but arround here gunshows are few and far between. They are also damn neer impossable to find, when and where they are. I'd doubt meny felons get guns at gunshows, there are LEO's at the shows who may spot them also. Most criminals buy a cheap POS concealable handgun or stolen handgun. You just dont see a guy with a $2,000 assault rifle knocking over a gas station for $50. If they wanted to attempt to lower crimes restrictions on handguns may make a dent... but criminals break laws not obey them. Edited October 20, 2004 by make a saiga 12 drum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted October 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 I can't say that I'm comfortable calling in purchases. Perhaps it would be best if you just got approval as you enter if you wanted to buy something. At least then the government would only know that you were there, and not that you got 10 handguns or rifles. I don't know...the government is about control, while gun lovers are many times about freedom; freedom from control. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 you do know if you sell a firearm to a criminal or sell one to someone and its used in a crime, its your fault right? Actually it isn't, unless you live in a liberal hell hole. Unless you 'knowingly' sell to a criminal, you can't be held responsible. Just as a dealer can't be held responsible if someone buys a gun in his shop legally or with a fake id/ssn and then goes on a shooting spree. None of us are psychic or can predict the future. Your whole concept on saving gun shows is trying to compromise and head the gun-banners off. It doesn't work that way, they don't want to compromise. In the end, you're just assisting them in forwarding their agendas by letting them get one step closer to putting more controls on gun owners. They would just use the new momentum/restrictions to forward even more in other areas. You're also forgetting about waiting periods that many states have. Who says they won't make the purchasers comply with that? Doesn't make send to have a weekend gun show and 5 day wait until you can pick-up your purchase, especially if you drove a 3hrs just to attend the show. In the gift/straw purchase front, this is they way I understand the ATF takes it. If you're purchasing with someone else's money for them, it's a straw purchase. A purchase for gifting is perfectly legal, since you are buying it for you, but giving it to them at a later date as a present. Either way, if you were handing the firearm over to a criminal and knew it, you would be held accountable by law. Personally, I don't care how you obtained a firearm so long as you: obtained it honestly and can legally own one. To sum it up Bvamp: your intentions are good, but the past has shown gun laws, good intentions or not, get turned in knives that stab you in the back. A couple of examples: The AWB is now being extended to pistols used in competitions and pump action rifles in future legislation and state bans. It won't be long before lever actions and bolt actions hit the list. The NFA is probably the best bit of legislation made when it comes to actually preventing people from getting firearms without getting a proper background check. It does have some downfall though: Tax Stamp (unconstitutional) and no maximum period is defined in how long the ATF can wait before they approve/disapprove your request. It was turned on us in '86 when they banned future manufacture of full-auto arms for civilians. Even now, people in the 9th district are trying to follow the lead started by the guy who made his own machingegun and was justified by the courts. People sent their $200 checks and form 1s to the ATF and they're just sitting on them and have no legal obligations to approve or deny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Actually it isn't, unless you live in a liberal hell hole. not alwase true. do you rember Ben Herris Smith, went through Indiana, and Ill shoothing at non-whites? the person he bought his guns from was arrested for it. i do not rember what happned after that. Indiana is not a liberal hell hole. KySoldier how about just being allowed to? not required. call me chicken, when i sell a gun i am heading to a dealer and paying the transfer fees. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 the governement will do whatever it wants to to you, and you cant do anything about it unless you know someone in power to speak up for you and say "they did not know". thats how it goes. the state will say anything and do anything it so feels like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 (edited) yeh, we should just get together and let them shoot all of us in the back of the heads at once, then maybe the facsists in power will all drown in the patriot's blood. I hear ya rook, i hear ya. Edited October 22, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brian33x51 1 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) It's stupid this whole thing needs to be debated. We desparately need a singapore style law. Any crime committed which involves use or threatened use of any deadly weapon (gun, knife, baseball bat, etc) should default immediately in capital punishment for the offender, no questions asked. The fact that our society can't stomach valid enforcement like this means that there are many people out there who are basically begging to become a victim of a repeat offender. Sad to say it, our society by and large is asking for these types of violent crimes to be committed against innocents. Thinking about it makes me want to puke. I can't stand John Kerry, I look at him and I see the beginning of the end of my freedom to worship and talk about God. Bush has been good but also a disappointment in many ways. He hasn't protected the constition as should be done and has been politically expedient on far too many issues for my taste. Again, thankfully I don't place my trust or happinness in what's going on in politics in this country or I'd be a hugely depressed person Edited October 30, 2004 by brian33x51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 brian: considering now in america, you are guilty until proven innocent, I think that capitol punishment along the lines of how you describe would not be so good. as long as we dont have what england has now for self defense laws (you cannot defend yourself. take that knife or bat like a man!) i think we'll be ok. they make those self-defense laws like england has in a prep to confiscate firearms from the general public. I myself, will only listen to the law so long. Im about at my limit now, and Im sure Im not the only one. why cant we have a NORMAL friggin set of politicians in office that actually CARE about us? they need to get off thier high-horses and get back down to earth. The majority of the people in the country arent properly represented as it is now. it can and will only get worse. o well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Give 'em hell guys! The reason that we get turds for candidates is that the political parties get away with it! let them know that Joe 6pack is PISSED! We had a war and beat the crap out of England so we could be governed and not RULED. How come BOTH major candidates are family members of the same damnad KING we got rid of? Notice that they both want to rule? Different styles, but both want to DICTATE. Not one of them give a rat's for the constitution OR the will of the people(us). Cousin "W" or cousin "K" wich inbred ivy leauge "skull and bones" monarch wannabe will cause your 'broiwnstar' the least distress?" G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gtx28 0 Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I realize that given my recent appearance i drawn no creedance within this group but bvamps post still disturbs me to the core. Not because his oppinion is one way or another or because i agree or disagree with a new law regaurding firearms. But because the measure of your resolve is to merely complain. Every show ive ever been to lawenforcement of some kind has been present. My question is bvamp did you report what you saw to law enforcement immediately, did you act on your convictions. Because if that is the measure of our resolve to merely complain then we are in trouble. I hope you all have let your voices be heard at the polls. Be safe, be blessed and live free. God bless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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