MikePGS 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I'm sure this has been asked dozens of times, and i apologize in advance. What i'm looking to do though, is to buy a saiga 223 and in the most inexpensive way possible make it compliant so that i may use 30 round magazines. My primary purpose for this is home defense, and of course to help repel the zombie hoards if they ever come for us . If possible i would like to have little to no gunsmithing involved. Though i doubt i'd be able to find parts that just slip in, if its possible please let me know what ones these are. I think i want to switch to the pistol grip, and possibly a folding stock, but beyond that anything that will help get the parts count down is fine with me, but i'd prefer to not have anything that would affect the velocity. Thanks in advance, and i apologize if this is the millionth time you've read a post like this, or if i posted it in the wrong forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) The answer depends on whether you are really going to convert you rifle or not. Non-converted - You can install the ACE receiver block/pistol grip and folding stock by just removing the existing buttstock. You still have to replace 3 parts with US-made to be compliant - Use all US-made magazines (like Thermold)...you're done. Or.... - Use US-made US-made baseplates and followers in foreign mags (2 parts) - Install a TAPCO Galil-style handguard (1 part - you're done) Total cost: ~ $250 + $12 per magazine or $10 per set for follower/floorplates Total time: ~ 1 hour Converted - Install ACE sidefolding stock and US-made pistol grip (2 parts - you still need 3 more) - Install US fire control group (3 parts - you're done) Total cost: ~ $195 Total time: ~6 hours In both cases, you'll also need to install a bullet guide for reliable feeding. In the converted rifle, you'll be able to legally use any AK magazine you find. Personally, I'd just convert and be done with it. The non-converted PG combo looks really goofy. Jim Edited October 17, 2007 by Navy87Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 hitup the tapco catalog... buy a bullet guide assemble parts done! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikePGS 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I'm a bit confused. If i convert it, that means that it'll take standard .223 AK-47 mags? Also how difficult is the bullet guide to install? Just curious, and thank both of you for the help so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I'm a bit confused. If i convert it, that means that it'll take standard .223 AK-47 mags? Also how difficult is the bullet guide to install? Just curious, and thank both of you for the help so far. If you install the bullet guide, it will take standard AK mags (74 size in your case). The bullet guide is required for reliable feeding with the standard mags, whether you convert or not. You don't have to convert to use the mags -- but it makes the whole compliance thing a lot easier. Installation is pretty easy -- drill the hole, tap it, screw in the bullet guide. You can buy the whole kit here on the Forum from Dinzag for around $30. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikePGS 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I looked at the Tapco site, and again i'm a bit confused. Would i just use the AK parts, or is there a specific saiga geared part set i need? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 You should probably start by going through the many conversion threads (and stickies) here in the Forum. The fire control group is standard AK. If you want to replace the handguard, you need to get the TAPCO Galil that is specifically for the Saiga. Otherwise you will need to install a lower handguard retainer (longer and mroe expensive process). Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 IF you want a bullet guide contact Dinzag from this forum he makes great ones! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy_stikx 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Or make your own out of pipe! I did. I need to fire test it but it hand feeds pretty good, after that I'll drill and tap it. Thank goodness for JB Weld I should note, that is not exactly a safe route to go, the whole JB weld bit, A home made bullet guide should be no problem. The mags will need to be modified, Galils less the 74 style. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kawirder1324 0 Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 i just bought the follower and baseplate then US FCG from DINZZAG total cost was about 100 including the mag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roscoe 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Will those followers and base plates fit Weiger/Surefire .223 mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kawirder1324 0 Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 im not totally sure, i just ordered them. Ill post whether they do or dont when i get them. unless anyone else knows? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kawirder1324 0 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 nope they dont work, i guess i gotta find two more things to change out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BullShark012 1 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) In both cases, you'll also need to install a bullet guide for reliable feeding. In the converted rifle, you'll be able to legally use any AK magazine you find. Personally, I'd just convert and be done with it. The non-converted PG combo looks really goofy. Jim You asked for a 'No Gunsmithing' option I believe.... It will cost you $185 for the Ace Folder/PG (2 US) and 12.99 for 1 30 rd. Master Moulder (Thermold) mag (3 US): (if you go w/ just a new foregrip & not the ACE folder - even cheaper) Bolt them on, Shave some off the bottom of the MM mag rear catch (ask me for details with a pocket knife) : Here's the Result - I love the Folder - I can Fire It all Day Folded Too! Doesn't look as good as most 'conversions', but I hasten to say, it looks better than some I've seen.... Takes a screw driver and a pocket knife and about 15 minutes. (NOT for Kalifungus, or NYkrazy) Compliance detail: 1. Stock Saiga (w/ monte carlo stock) = 14 'countable Parts' 2. Must get to 10 or less (foriegn parts) to use hi-cap mags. 3. So You Replace: Magazine (3 foriegn) with all US Mag (3 US parts) 4. You are now at 11 Foriegn Parts. You need just one more US part 5. You could just replace the Foregrip if you wanted. (1 part) 6. I Like the ACE PG/Folder, So: I Replace the stock butstock (1 foriegn part) w/ the US Folding Butstock & Pistol Grip (2 US parts) 11 -2 = 9 7. I'm at 9 Foriegn Parts - 1 Under the Limit! 8. Legal by 922r - AS LONG AS YOU DON'T USE ANY FORIEGN MAGS (including the stock 10 rd. that came w/ your gun! (by the way don't even have it 'available' or 'nearby' (ATF). For Details on Modifing the Master Moulder 30 rd. mag: near bottom of 1st page - http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=21161 p.s. -if you want to slot the foregrip (not a parts change) It will take you considerably more time and effort! I did mine over 2 evenings with a Dremel tool ...kind of a bitch....I designed a template on paper, transferred it to the removed foregrip and went to town....would suggest you have someone else do it for you, unless you feel up to it. Edited December 7, 2007 by BullShark012 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cryptkeeper 0 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) In both cases, you'll also need to install a bullet guide for reliable feeding. In the converted rifle, you'll be able to legally use any AK magazine you find. Personally, I'd just convert and be done with it. The non-converted PG combo looks really goofy. Jim You asked for a 'No Gunsmithing' option I believe.... It will cost you $185 for the Ace Folder/PG (2 US) and 12.99 for 1 30 rd. Master Moulder (Thermold) mag (3 US): Bolt them on, Shave some off the bottom of the MM mag rear catch (ask me for details with a pocket knife) : Here's the Result - I love the Folder - I can Fire It all Day Folded Too! Doesn't look as good as Some 'conversions', but I hasten to say, it looks better than alot I've seen.... Takes a screw driver and a pocket knife and about 15 minutes. (NOT for Kalifungus, or NYkrazy) dont you still need to change 1 more thing to be legal? like the gas piston the count is no more than 10 imported parts . the pistol grip and a folding stock makes it an assualt rifle . http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18530. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=14647. my mistake i was counting a sear your good to go Edited December 7, 2007 by Cryptkeeper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krinkovliu 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I think BullShark012 is wrong in his parts count though he is complaint with 922. He starts off with 14 foreign parts. By using a USA made magazine the count drops to 11. However, using an ACE stock and pistol grip only counts as one part because he his not replacing a foreign pistol grip (there is none) with a USA made pistol grip. He only gets one part out of this so his final parts count is 10 (not 9 as he reports). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BullShark012 1 Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) I think BullShark012 is wrong in his parts count though he is complaint with 922. He starts off with 14 foreign parts. By using a USA made magazine the count drops to 11. However, using an ACE stock and pistol grip only counts as one part because he his not replacing a foreign pistol grip (there is none) with a USA made pistol grip. He only gets one part out of this so his final parts count is 10 (not 9 as he reports). I Stand Corrected. You Are Right. If You Add the PG/Folder - you 'replace' 1 foriegn part w/ 2 US, BUT - You do ADD another "Part" to the list that was not there to begin with (PG); so it backs us up to 15 'Countable' 'parts' so: 15-3(mag)=12 - 2(US ACE Folder)=10. VERY ASTUTE and Correct. Thanks for the Observation! You touched on something I wrote about the other day - people who add a Drag - style Russian Saiga Buttstock - they have 15 'parts' to start with too... BTAFE counts thumbhole butstocks as 2 'parts' (Pg & Butstock) - so ANY Saiga Imported w/a Drag. Stock Starts out w/ 15 'Countable Parts'... Think about it. BS012 - Thanks, you just enlightened me Krinkovliu. Thank You. (but I knew I was 922r compliant, just thought I had a 'cushion' of 1. - NOT! BTW - My Solution Works Great for 7.62x39 - For .223 You need to find an Equal US 30 rd. mag (don't think the Master Molders are in .223) (But the Idea is the Same. -- ACE Folder/PG + USA 30 rd. mag.) Edited December 13, 2007 by BullShark012 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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