aresv 49 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) So with the red dot more forward on the gun it allows a wider unobstructed view. Well, sort of. Forward mounted sights allow a wider unobstructed view, but what good is that? The dot can only appear in the "obstructed" portion of your view. Mounting the sight forward makes the sight more like a tiny peep sight, and less effective for its intended purpose: rapid target acquisition. "Unobstructed" by your description would be every part of the sky where there cannot be a dot or reticle. Thus, everything that's unobstructed is no good for aiming! If you're truly shooting with both eyes open, your nondominant eye won't be obstructed by the sight even if it's mounted to the rear. Edited February 28, 2008 by aresv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 So with the red dot more forward on the gun it allows a wider unobstructed view. Well, sort of. Forward mounted sights allow a wider unobstructed view, but what good is that? The dot can only appear in the "obstructed" portion of your view. Mounting the sight forward makes the sight more like a tiny peep sight, and less effective for its intended purpose: rapid target acquisition. "Unobstructed" by your description would be every part of the sky where there cannot be a dot or reticle. Thus, everything that's unobstructed is no good for aiming! If you're truly shooting with both eyes open, your nondominant eye won't be obstructed by the sight even if it's mounted to the rear. I don't know why but I can really rip accuratly with the red dot forward. Believe me it works. At least for me it does Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 --so I will soon (finally!) be getting my S-12 back from the shop, and I'm back to wondering about sights. I would like to use a red-dot sight, for ease and rapidity of acquisition, and naturally I would like to use a Russian-designed sight. I remember some folks saying that the Kobras didn't stand up very well to the repeated heavy recoil these blasters dish out, so now I'm thinking, okay, it's been a while since the S-12 really started gaining popularity, and folks have been using a variety of sights for a while now-- what has proven to be long-term durable? I'm leaning toward either a PK-01 or PK-AS-- comments? Discussion? Anything better now from the Russians? Only the AA-battery Kobras have durability problems on the Saiga-12. The batteries are mounted in-line and slam back and forth during recoil. Eventually, either the batteries distort and lose contact or the contact tabs break from excessive flexing. The PK-AS is a good sight, but it's hard to find. Nobody has the PK-AS-S (left offset) in stock and according to Tantal, the factory isn't producing any right now. A few places have the PK-AS-V (over the bore), but this design is way too tall to be practical. You can also find the PK-AS-W (weaver mount), but it requires a weaver rail and will be almost as tall as the PK-AS-V. Another option is to mount the PK-AS sight on a Kobra-8 base as described here: http://oforums.theothersideofkim.com/index...ewthread/18959/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) I plan to buy a PK ASW with in the next few weeks, for my AR that I'm building, Ducktapeman maybe you would want to consider the PK-A for your Saiga? http://www.eastwave.ca/products/scopes/pka.html http://www.eastwave.ca/products/scopes/pdk23.html or this one Edited February 29, 2008 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) So with the red dot more forward on the gun it allows a wider unobstructed view. Well, sort of. Forward mounted sights allow a wider unobstructed view, but what good is that? The dot can only appear in the "obstructed" portion of your view. Mounting the sight forward makes the sight more like a tiny peep sight, and less effective for its intended purpose: rapid target acquisition. "Unobstructed" by your description would be every part of the sky where there cannot be a dot or reticle. Thus, everything that's unobstructed is no good for aiming! If you're truly shooting with both eyes open, your nondominant eye won't be obstructed by the sight even if it's mounted to the rear. Example..hold a object out 16" away from your face then bring it back to 4" away from your face.The object closer to your face has less full viewing,not buy a whole lot but its there.The longer the site plain (to a point) the easyer it is to get on the target faster.The dots just as red 16" as it is 4" away. "Unobstructed" by your description would be every part of the sky where there cannot be a dot or reticle. .. Yea, but every part of the sky could be a potental target..thus the need for unobstructed wide field of view. Edited February 29, 2008 by Pointer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ajackb 0 Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Me too! I've been pondering what red dot optic to use on my inbound S-12 as well. Currently, I'm leaning heavily toward the ATN - Ultra Digital Comp pictured at bottom. Interestingly, although ATN is the abbreviation for "American Technoligies Network" Corporation, apparently all of their products are largely manufactured in the Ukraine! (My ATN 10x65Z day scope is). So there you have another option for a product that has a "Russian connection or link." IF ANYONE HAS HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SPECIFIC ATN OPTIC I would be hugely appreciative to learn of your experiences and results with it???? Can't comment quite yet but I did purchase an ATN Ultra Sight (looks more like a C-More) but can't mount it until I get a rail from Cobra. BTW.......sticker on the bottom of the sight read "Made in China" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 http://www.binocularsmart.com/scopes/ar-15...ver-mount.shtml I just tried to order a PK-01 (auto) from this website but somethings screwy with their checkout page, keeps giving me a "parameter error". Damn. Anyone know a different place selling PK-01 Autoadjust with mount? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevL 0 Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 So with the red dot more forward on the gun it allows a wider unobstructed view. Well, sort of. Forward mounted sights allow a wider unobstructed view, but what good is that? The dot can only appear in the "obstructed" portion of your view. Mounting the sight forward makes the sight more like a tiny peep sight, and less effective for its intended purpose: rapid target acquisition. "Unobstructed" by your description would be every part of the sky where there cannot be a dot or reticle. Thus, everything that's unobstructed is no good for aiming! If you're truly shooting with both eyes open, your nondominant eye won't be obstructed by the sight even if it's mounted to the rear. The issue is the optic itself DOES block some of your FOV and creates blind spots that your non dominant eye cannot see through. Red dot placement is about balance. You want it as far to the REAR as possible while blocking as little of your view as possible. If a red dot had no border or housing to block your dominant eye's view you would want the screen as close to the dominant eye as recoil would allow. Tube type optics also create a tube effect where you see the inside of the optic more as it gets closer. The Aimpoint has a battery housing which blocks some view of both the dominant and non dominant eye up close, this is why Aimpoint has made a low battery housing version of the M4. Once you get an Aimpoint about 8" from the dominant eye placing it further forward does not do anything but reduce the angle at which you can find the dot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdgarM 0 Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 http://www.binocularsmart.com/scopes/ar-15...ver-mount.shtml I just tried to order a PK-01 (auto) from this website but somethings screwy with their checkout page, keeps giving me a "parameter error". Damn. Anyone know a different place selling PK-01 Autoadjust with mount? Kalinka optics has them for $169.95 + $7.99 shipping, total $177.94. BinocularSmart whacks you $20.00 for shipping for a total of $169.99. Go with Kalinka Optics. I've seen some negative feedback around here on Kalinka, but I have purchased at least 9-10 scopes and as many accessories and have never had a problem. Fast reliable service and very knowledgable staff. As a matter of fact, I just had to make my first return on a mount and everything went very smooth. Click here for:Kalinka Optics PK-01 Auto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 http://www.binocularsmart.com/scopes/ar-15...ver-mount.shtml I just tried to order a PK-01 (auto) from this website but somethings screwy with their checkout page, keeps giving me a "parameter error". Damn. Anyone know a different place selling PK-01 Autoadjust with mount? Kalinka optics has them for $169.95 + $7.99 shipping, total $177.94. BinocularSmart whacks you $20.00 for shipping for a total of $169.99. Go with Kalinka Optics. I've seen some negative feedback around here on Kalinka, but I have purchased at least 9-10 scopes and as many accessories and have never had a problem. Fast reliable service and very knowledgable staff. As a matter of fact, I just had to make my first return on a mount and everything went very smooth. Click here for:Kalinka Optics PK-01 Auto I would check with Kalinka before ordering to determine which version they're going to ship you. The picture shows the automatic brightness model, but the description makes no mention of automatic brightness and seems to refer to the 8-setting manual model. Eastwave is advertising the automatic PK-01 for $120: http://eastwave.ca/products/scopes/pk01.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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