Saigunov Compliance Parts...Hmmmm...

[sicktooth 8]

so I'm going to be building a Saigunov in some time, i have a little problem. I have PSL upper and lower HG's and a Dragunov buttstock. I'm going to need 3 more 922r parts to keep it legal after i swap in a USA FCG. The only other things i can come up with would be a gas piston and a flash hider/break-but it needs to be a Drag style AND made in the USA. that leaves one other part...i cant seem to brainstorm anything. so if you've ever built or know about making a Saigunov LEGAL id like to know how you came about doing that. Thanks...i appreciate any help or comments.

 

LOOK...ITS ALMOST THERE!!!

 

edit: if anyone could point me in the direction of finding this flash hider...PLEASE DO!!!

Edited March 26, 2008 by sicktooth

[nalioth 405]

Surefire or Master Molder mag will give you 3 parts, if you desire mag parts for 922r.

[sicktooth 8]

i want to keep the stick to the factory mags IF POSSIBLE. otherwise i just may have to go the mag route...

[SaigaNoobie 66]

You're going about it wrong. Don't COUNT US parts, Subtract them.

 

14 foreign parts in gun as is.

 

-3 for FCG = 11

 

BUT you're adding 1 in the pistol grip (they count it ) So you're really at 12.

 

The forward grip only counts as one even though it's two parts.

 

Subtract 1 for a US made Piston. = 11

 

Adding a Muzzle device, if foreign would ADD a part, as a US it does nothing. Still = 11

 

The only other thing is either DO NOT use your 8rd mag as it counts as 3 foreign parts.... just buy SUrefires and you will Subtract 3 more, bringing you to 8 or 9 (without the piston replacement)

 

You're only hope with the foreign furniture is to use US mags.

 

922r is NOT a Count of US parts but a Count of Foreign parts.... adding US = Subtracting foreign... if you add a US part but there was no foreign part there first, it doesn't help you.

[sicktooth 8]

You're going about it wrong. Don't COUNT US parts, Subtract them.

 

14 foreign parts in gun as is.

 

-3 for FCG = 11

 

BUT you're adding 1 in the pistol grip (they count it ) So you're really at 12.

 

The forward grip only counts as one even though it's two parts.

 

Subtract 1 for a US made Piston. = 11

 

Adding a Muzzle device, if foreign would ADD a part, as a US it does nothing. Still = 11

 

The only other thing is either DO NOT use your 8rd mag as it counts as 3 foreign parts.... just buy SUrefires and you will Subtract 3 more, bringing you to 8 or 9 (without the piston replacement)

 

You're only hope with the foreign furniture is to use US mags.

 

922r is NOT a Count of US parts but a Count of Foreign parts.... adding US = Subtracting foreign... if you add a US part but there was no foreign part there first, it doesn't help you.

 

the light bulb just turned on! iv been doing this the WRONG WAY the entire time!!! thanks noobie...looks like I'm the noob...LOL!

 

my buttstock DOES NOT SPECIFY whether it is made in the US or not. my HG's are PSL's also which i do not believe are made here in the US...someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

Edited March 26, 2008 by sicktooth

[nalioth 405]

my buttstock DOES NOT SPECIFY whether it is made in the US or not. my HG's are PSL's also which i do not believe are made here in the US...someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

All the furniture in your pictures is foreign.

[sicktooth 8]

my buttstock DOES NOT SPECIFY whether it is made in the US or not. my HG's are PSL's also which i do not believe are made here in the US...someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

All the furniture in your pictures is foreign.

 

thats what i thought...thanks

[longhunter-CO 0]

If your PG is intergral to the buttstock then I do not think that counts as a part. If your non-U.S. muzzle attachment is perm. attached to the barrel then that is not considered a part (it is part of the barrel then).

Not sure if this is exactly right...

US flash hider

Edited March 26, 2008 by Longhunter-CO

[Motopilot1 37]

if you only plan to use 8 rounders there shouldnt be a problem with 922 because you dont actually have a pg right? dont you only have to worry about it if you use hi caps? or am i wrong?

[sicktooth 8]

if you only plan to use 8 rounders there shouldnt be a problem with 922 because you dont actually have a pg right? dont you only have to worry about it if you use hi caps? or am i wrong?

 

OH GOD, i hope your correct. i DON'T want to use hi-caps anyways! and how big is a hi-cap considered? i want to do the 10 round mod to my mag...

Edited March 26, 2008 by sicktooth

[DTakas 2]

if you only plan to use 8 rounders there shouldnt be a problem with 922 because you dont actually have a pg right? dont you only have to worry about it if you use hi caps? or am i wrong?

 

OH GOD, i hope your correct. i DON'T want to use hi-caps anyways! and how big is a hi-cap considered? i want to do the 10 round mod to my mag...

 

You could always get some surefire mags and cut them down to the 10 round rib and then they would count as US parts and still be the size you want.

[mr. fudd 0]

I don't think you need any more parts. As it sits, you have a rifle with no pistol grip, no high cap magazine and, (assuming that muzzle brake doesn't unscrew), no flash suppressor or bayonet lug. That's a rifle that could be legally imported and sold in the US without violating section 925d and as such it doesn't have to comply with 922r.

 

Now, as soon as you put a high cap mag into it, it will have to comply, but between your trigger group and the parts count on a Surefire mag you should be OK. If that brake/sight combo is also made in the US then you could use FBMG mags too.

[mr. fudd 0]

High cap mags hold more than 10 rounds.

[sicktooth 8]

so if i put a non-US comp on it i would have to do the 922r? the same goes for the pistol grip and hi caps too? if i understood that right...or if i want to be in compliance with the comp/break it needs to be tack welded?

Edited March 27, 2008 by sicktooth

[greatmoose 4]

Thumbhole stocks now count as a PG (IIRC, that's a recent decision), but don't they also count as two parts? i can't remember...

 

I'm also curious about the flash hider thing. If they're NOT threaded, just pinned or welded or whatever, do they count at all? Or am I thinking AWB, not 922r?

[DTakas 2]

Thumbhole stocks now count as a PG (IIRC, that's a recent decision), but don't they also count as two parts? i can't remember...

 

I'm also curious about the flash hider thing. If they're NOT threaded, just pinned or welded or whatever, do they count at all? Or am I thinking AWB, not 922r?

I'm pretty sure thumbhole stocks count as two parts now, but I get confused on this stuff too. The way I understand it anything that chances the rifle from "sporting configuration" to "un-sporting" requires compliance parts. That includes pistol grips, high capacity magazines, and maybe muzzle attachments (or is it just threaded muzzles, or is it just flash suppressors and not brakes regardless of how they are installed ?) I'm not sure.

[shaneman153a 39]

Can you take US made followers and floorplates out and put them in the foreign mag body? (2 parts)

 

edit: I'm not 100% on the thumbhole stock changing "configuration", but they do now import saigas with the foriegn thumbhole stock, so I would guess no.

Edited March 27, 2008 by shaneman153a

[greatmoose 4]

edit: I'm not 100% on the thumbhole stock changing "configuration", but they do now import saigas with the foriegn thumbhole stock, so I would guess no.

 

That's what I was wondering. It SEEMS like if a rifle already has thumbhole, it's sporting, but if you ADD a thumbhole it becomes unsporting and counts as a PG and possibly two parts. Which is friggin' stupid.

 

As far as muzzlebrakes/flashhiders go, I have no idea. It USED to be that muzzle brakes were OK, flash hiders weren't, pinned was OK, threaded wasn't. But I can't remember if that was the AWB or 922r. The best example I can think of is the century CETME rifles from a few years ago. They had pinned muzzlebrakes, but if you knocked them off and used the existing threads and put a flash hider on, it changed your compliance.

[sicktooth 8]

oh GOD this is SO confusing!!!

 

so then ill have to use US made mags then right, since all this thumb hole stock is in violation now? i can use hi caps then (i don't want to) right? i really like the looks of the factory 8rds and would like to stay short and sweet because a 25rd would look STUPID on a Saigunov...THIS SUCKS!!!! i thought i was in the clear...back into the dark...

Edited March 27, 2008 by sicktooth

[mr. fudd 0]

My understanding is that if the brake is somehow "permanently" fixed to the barrel that it's not considered a flash suppressor, regardless of it's actual function. Pinning, welding or epoxying are generally considered to be permanent. Locktite, threads or set screws are not. So the minute you attach a detachable brake, you have to comply with 922r.

 

Whether it's US made or not doesn't really matter, but as long as you're adding a part you may as well opt for one made in the US. A US made muzzle brake won't help you in your parts count, but a foreign made one will hurt you if you decide to make it compliant later.

 

Here's why. Your rifle starts out with 14 foreign parts according to the ATF. You need to reduce that total parts count to 10 in order to be 922r compliant. By adding a US muzzle brake, (which counts as a part), you haven't reduced your original parts count at all. You still have 14 foreign parts on the gun. If you add a foreign brake however, now you have 15.

[sicktooth 8]

so adding a US break/flash hider doest help you in any way?

[nalioth 405]

so adding a US break/flash hider doest help you in any way?

Nope.

 

Just replacing a foreign brake/flash hider.

 

 

If your firearm doens't have a muzzle device to start with, you are just adding a countable part.

[DTakas 2]

Edited March 28, 2008 by DTakas

[greatmoose 4]

My understanding is that if the brake is somehow "permanently" fixed to the barrel that it's not considered a flash suppressor, regardless of it's actual function. Pinning, welding or epoxying are generally considered to be permanent. Locktite, threads or set screws are not. So the minute you attach a detachable brake, you have to comply with 922r.

 

Does anyone have a recent ruling stating whether this is still the case or not? I hope so...

[DTakas 2]

[SaigaNoobie 66]

[DTakas 2]

FH/MBs are not importable on the guns. The ones you see on RAA are the dealer sample gun brought over first and inspected. Then BATF says "no detachable buttstock, no FH, blah blah blah"

Yes, and from my understanding of the 922 rules if you can't import it in that condition you can't configure it like that (without compliance parts that is). Which means if you want a flash hinder no matter how it's attached you must play the parts count game.

[greatmoose 4]

[mr. fudd 0]

Well, someone forgot to tell the Romanians. PSL's are still coming in and they have "flash suppressors". If you look though, none of them just screw on. They are all either welded, pinned or both. I've been told that on the real deal that they do screw on however. None of this is coincidence.

 

This was an issue back during the ban. Back then flash suppressors were a no-no even on US made rifles. Muzzle brakes on the other hand were A-OK. The only functional difference between the two was that flash suppressors screwed onto the barrel and lots of rifles were made and legally sold with permanently attached "muzzle brakes".

[nalioth 405]

Well, someone forgot to tell the Romanians. PSL's are still coming in and they have "flash suppressors". If you look though, none of them just screw on. They are all either welded, pinned or both. I've been told that on the real deal that they do screw on however.

The PSL uses what is considered a "muzzle brake', which does not constitute an "evil feature" on the list of parts that bar guns from importation.