which revolver?

[superA 289]

Ok, I'm looking for a small revolver, concealed carry size, I would like to get a 22lr that has an additional cylinder for 22 mag. Any thoughts on this as far as a quality manufacture, any to avoid? Thanks much.

[doublehorse 1]

Ok, I'm looking for a small revolver, concealed carry size, I would like to get a 22lr that has an additional cylinder for 22 mag. Any thoughts on this as far as a quality manufacture, any to avoid? Thanks much.

 

What would you do with a .22 revolver: fight off rabid squirrels

 

A S&W 642 is a great pocket gun. I carry 125gr .38 special +P in mine. It is a BUG to a Ruger SP101 .357 magnum snub. Those are for stopping two legged threats.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

A Smith and Wesson Model 51 is fairly small for a 22 Mag. I don't think they ever made any 22LR cylinders for them though.

If you don't mind going bigger, a 4" Model 53 in 22 Jet (.357 Magnum necked to 22 caliber) is a nice gun and many came with extra 22LR cylinders or you could use the chamber sleeves. Hard to find one with a 4" barrel though.

 

Tony

[superA 289]

Ok, I'm looking for a small revolver, concealed carry size, I would like to get a 22lr that has an additional cylinder for 22 mag. Any thoughts on this as far as a quality manufacture, any to avoid? Thanks much.

 

What would you do with a .22 revolver: fight off rabid squirrels

 

A S&W 642 is a great pocket gun. I carry 125gr .38 special +P in mine. It is a BUG to a Ruger SP101 .357 magnum snub. Those are for stopping two legged threats.

 

 

 

 

 

If I ran into rabid squirrels I may use it for that. Actually I like the thought of 22lr even for handling whatever problems may arise. Cheap ammo so I can practice alot. No recoil, in case my wife wants to use it. Less chance of over penetration in case I miss. I figure if I ever needed to use it I would be very close to whomever I'm using it on and all that practice should come in handy. One quick shot to the head should do. And I'm honestly not worried about missing because of stress when I've put in the time with my weapon and I'm that close. Even a 44 mag if put in the wrong place will allow someone to counter. If I ever need to use it I plan on going for a head shot and practicing that way.

[superA 289]

A Smith and Wesson Model 51 is fairly small for a 22 Mag. I don't think they ever made any 22LR cylinders for them though.

If you don't mind going bigger, a 4" Model 53 in 22 Jet (.357 Magnum necked to 22 caliber) is a nice gun and many came with extra 22LR cylinders or you could use the chamber sleeves. Hard to find one with a 4" barrel though.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

I've never heard of that gun, I'm going to check it out. I'm assuming this round has alot more punch than 22 mag? I could always have a gun smith shorten the barrel.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Ok, I'm looking for a small revolver, concealed carry size, I would like to get a 22lr that has an additional cylinder for 22 mag. Any thoughts on this as far as a quality manufacture, any to avoid? Thanks much.

 

What would you do with a .22 revolver: fight off rabid squirrels

 

A S&W 642 is a great pocket gun. I carry 125gr .38 special +P in mine. It is a BUG to a Ruger SP101 .357 magnum snub. Those are for stopping two legged threats.

 

 

 

 

 

If I ran into rabid squirrels I may use it for that. Actually I like the thought of 22lr even for handling whatever problems may arise. Cheap ammo so I can practice alot. No recoil, in case my wife wants to use it. Less chance of over penetration in case I miss. I figure if I ever needed to use it I would be very close to whomever I'm using it on and all that practice should come in handy. One quick shot to the head should do. And I'm honestly not worried about missing because of stress when I've put in the time with my weapon and I'm that close. Even a 44 mag if put in the wrong place will allow someone to counter. If I ever need to use it I plan on going for a head shot and practicing that way.

superA - you are certainly entitled to your own ideas what what you would do and why and how. The only thing that I would suggest is that you consider what the prosecuting attorney might have to say. Perhaps something along the lines of, "Well, Mr. superA you are obviously an expert at the use of handguns. Tell me Mr. superA was it your intention to stop the threat to your life or to terminate the life of my client? I would suggest that your intention was not to stop the threat (legal) but instead to kill my client (illegal)." Do as you wish but be sure that it is not a matter of record that you have "practiced" for such an scenario in the unlikely event it comes to pass. Perhaps you might tell the attorney that you had aimed center of mass (same as police) and were so nervous you must have jerked when you shot. Just another thought.

 

1911

[superA 289]

Good advice 1911. That's mostly what we talked about in our conceal carry class. There will be some rat shit coming at you no matter what, trying to make it look like you were to aggressive in defending you or your families life. I'll still stick to my plans and worry about the losers after the fact. I can't imagine one of my kids being victims because I was worried about what it may look like in court. I just won't take that chance. Sadly, what you say is true.

[doublehorse 1]

With hand guns, dry fire practice is much more important than live fire. And the ammo is cheap too I try to dry fire at least 100 times for every live round I shoot. If recoil is of concern, try a 9mm Glock. I prefer .40 S&W myself (my house gun). During a real encounter, you won't notice the recoil.

 

On penetration, with the .22 the concern is certainly not over-penetration. I would be concerned about penetration at all. Even with a head shot, you have to hit the right spot so the round does not bounce off the skull.

 

Check this out for penetration tests:

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm

 

A .22 magnum has about 40% one shot stopping success. Compare that to a .357 magnum or .40 S&W which are in the high 90%, or 9mm which is at best 90%. Even a .380 ACP is around 70%. I would never trust my life to anything smaller than a 9mm.

[nalioth 405]

A .22 magnum has about 40% one shot stopping success. Compare that to a .357 magnum or .40 S&W which are in the high 90%, or 9mm which is at best 90%. Even a .380 ACP is around 70%. I would never trust my life to anything smaller than a 9mm.

. . . and that is very dependent on shot placement.

 

There are documented cases of perps being ventilated by police 9mm and 40 S&W who did not cease their bad attitude until they bled out.

[superA 289]

With hand guns, dry fire practice is much more important than live fire. And the ammo is cheap too I try to dry fire at least 100 times for every live round I shoot. If recoil is of concern, try a 9mm Glock. I prefer .40 S&W myself (my house gun). During a real encounter, you won't notice the recoil.

 

On penetration, with the .22 the concern is certainly not over-penetration. I would be concerned about penetration at all. Even with a head shot, you have to hit the right spot so the round does not bounce off the skull.

 

Check this out for penetration tests:

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm

 

A .22 magnum has about 40% one shot stopping success. Compare that to a .357 magnum or .40 S&W which are in the high 90%, or 9mm which is at best 90%. Even a .380 ACP is around 70%. I would never trust my life to anything smaller than a 9mm.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a hard time believing that a 22 mag would ever bounce of of someone's skull, or a 22lr for that matter. Do you have any info on this. I could be wrong. I personally think that if bystanders are not a consideration than a .357 mag would be the perfect cc gun. But this is something I have to think of. For the house I got plenty of fire power. I just want something to carry when I'm amongst the humans. On the plus side maybe my wife will like it so much that I'll have to get another gun.

[nalioth 405]

I have a hard time believing that a 22 mag would ever bounce of of someone's skull, or a 22lr for that matter. Do you have any info on this. I could be wrong. I personally think that if bystanders are not a consideration than a .357 mag would be the perfect cc gun. But this is something I have to think of. For the house I got plenty of fire power. I just want something to carry when I'm amongst the humans. On the plus side maybe my wife will like it so much that I'll have to get another gun.

They're talking about oblique strikes on areas with heavier bone.

 

The lighter projectile will bounce where the heavier one will plow on through.

[superA 289]

I have a hard time believing that a 22 mag would ever bounce of of someone's skull, or a 22lr for that matter. Do you have any info on this. I could be wrong. I personally think that if bystanders are not a consideration than a .357 mag would be the perfect cc gun. But this is something I have to think of. For the house I got plenty of fire power. I just want something to carry when I'm amongst the humans. On the plus side maybe my wife will like it so much that I'll have to get another gun.

They're talking about oblique strikes on areas with heavier bone.

 

The lighter projectile will bounce where the heavier one will plow on through.

 

 

 

 

By oblique strikes do you mean at an angle as opposed to straight on?

[nalioth 405]

I have a hard time believing that a 22 mag would ever bounce of of someone's skull, or a 22lr for that matter. Do you have any info on this. I could be wrong. I personally think that if bystanders are not a consideration than a .357 mag would be the perfect cc gun. But this is something I have to think of. For the house I got plenty of fire power. I just want something to carry when I'm amongst the humans. On the plus side maybe my wife will like it so much that I'll have to get another gun.

They're talking about oblique strikes on areas with heavier bone.

 

The lighter projectile will bounce where the heavier one will plow on through.

 

 

 

 

By oblique strikes do you mean at an angle as opposed to straight on?

That's what it means.

[GPalmer 1]

.22 is a pretty poor choice of cailber for defensive use and compounded with the lower capacity of the revolver sounds like a bad plan to me. The .22 is fast to shoot, inexpensive to practice with but generally does not have the penetration to hit the vitals. Not that I'd volunteer to be shot with it, but I also wouldn't knowingly carry it into combat if I had an alternative. There's an old saw that says "No one in a gunfight ever wished for a smaller gun!" I think there's a lot of truth in that...

 

I would seriously suggest a .357 Magnum loaded with .38 Special +P rounds. S&W have some great revolvers especially if you go to the pre lock ones. The Ruger SP 101 might also be of interest to you. It's cheap and reliable though not as elegant a solution as the older S&W's. Personally when I'm in the mood for revolver carry I go with a S&W 65 with a 3" heavy barrel which is a classic. It's probably bigger than you want since it's a 6 shot.

[doublehorse 1]

With a .357 magnum, use 125gr. This will minimize overpenetration (concern about going through the BG and into an innocent). In actual encounters, the 125gr JHP .357 magnum has proven itself to be the best manstopper.

 

I use Double Tap ammo for carry and MasterCast for practice, both in 125gr JHP. Same brands for my BUG (642) in +P. I use the 2.25" Ruger SP101 and love the gun. It is very sturdy and forgiving, shoots any load. Both guns have CT Grips on them. The 642 recoil with +P is worse than the SP101 with 125gr .357. SP101 is all steel and that helps recoil.

[superA 289]

I have a hard time believing that a 22 mag would ever bounce of of someone's skull, or a 22lr for that matter. Do you have any info on this. I could be wrong. I personally think that if bystanders are not a consideration than a .357 mag would be the perfect cc gun. But this is something I have to think of. For the house I got plenty of fire power. I just want something to carry when I'm amongst the humans. On the plus side maybe my wife will like it so much that I'll have to get another gun.

They're talking about oblique strikes on areas with heavier bone.

 

The lighter projectile will bounce where the heavier one will plow on through.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

By oblique strikes do you mean at an angle as opposed to straight on?

That's what it means.

[superA 289]

Doublehorse and Glocker, I appreciate the advice. The thing is an H&R revolver carries 9 rounds so I'm not worried about capacity. Recoil doesn't bug me so if I have a 357 mag I'll load it with that for defense. I say recoil doesn't bug me, my brother has a snub nose .357 and my dad has a 44 mag, I can tell the difference and I would not choose the 44 mag for sd situation. But that has alot to do with knowing the 357 will do what I need. I hadn't thought about possible ballistic tip or frangible ammo. My reason for the 22 is concern about car, building, etc. penetration should I miss. Does that kind of load exist? Thanks for the help.

[doublehorse 1]

Doublehorse and Glocker, I appreciate the advice. The thing is an H&R revolver carries 9 rounds so I'm not worried about capacity. Recoil doesn't bug me so if I have a 357 mag I'll load it with that for defense. I say recoil doesn't bug me, my brother has a snub nose .357 and my dad has a 44 mag, I can tell the difference and I would not choose the 44 mag for sd situation. But that has alot to do with knowing the 357 will do what I need. I hadn't thought about possible ballistic tip or frangible ammo. My reason for the 22 is concern about car, building, etc. penetration should I miss. Does that kind of load exist? Thanks for the help.

 

Being concerned about hitting others if you miss is noble, but if the load you use will most likely not stop the BG, you might as well just have OC spray or a kubotan. Those are probably just as effective as a .22 and you don't have to worry about bystanders. It is your life and if you feel comfortable with the .22, fine. I don't even trust 9mm or .380, but that's just me.

[GPalmer 1]

Doublehorse and Glocker, I appreciate the advice. The thing is an H&R revolver carries 9 rounds so I'm not worried about capacity. Recoil doesn't bug me so if I have a 357 mag I'll load it with that for defense. I say recoil doesn't bug me, my brother has a snub nose .357 and my dad has a 44 mag, I can tell the difference and I would not choose the 44 mag for sd situation. But that has alot to do with knowing the 357 will do what I need. I hadn't thought about possible ballistic tip or frangible ammo. My reason for the 22 is concern about car, building, etc. penetration should I miss. Does that kind of load exist? Thanks for the help.

Yeah, I have one of the H&R's like that for the wife to shoot when she goes to the range. I have a Ruger 22/45 I use at the range. Great guns for working on the mechanics of shooting and inexpensive to practice with. I wouldn't carry either one for self defense though. The .44 Magnum is a non starter. If you look at any of the self defense rounds, you'll find they've been downloaded so much the ballistics are virtually identical to 9mm or 40S&W and the price per round is much higher.

 

If you research what is required to reliably stop an attacker, i.e. the FBI standard, you'll soon figure out that anything that is able to penetrate adequately is also able to penetrate a lot of material if you miss. There isn't any magical silver bullet that will penetrate great on tissue and not on other materials. I haven't seen a lot of ballistic tips for handguns. Frangibles don't penetrate deeply enough to be effective. The 38 Special is a pretty weak round when you look at its ballistics (See below).

 

DoubleTap 357 Magnum 125gr. Speer Gold Dot

Velocity: 1600fps / 4" Ruger GP-100

1425fps / 1 7/8" S&W

1750fps / 6"bbl S&W 686

Bullet: Speer Gold Dot

Muzzle Energy: 710 ft. lbs.

 

DoubleTap 9mm+P 124gr Speer Gold Dot JHP

Bullet : Speer Gold Dot JHP

Ballistics : 124gr @ 1310fps / 473ft. lbs. from a G17.

124 @ 1295fps / 462 ft. lbs. from a G19

 

DoubleTap 38 Special+P 125gr. Gold Dot

Velocity: 1175fps / 4" Ruger GP-100

1.875" bbl S&W - 1100fps

Bullet: Speer Gold Dot Low Velocity

Muzzle Energy: 383 ft. lbs. 4"

336 ft. lbs. 1.875"

 

It's already going to cut a lot of the penetration down. To my mind (and the FBI's test) it's at the low end of the scale for penetration. This round appears to be an excellent performer though since DoubleTap states:

In 10% ordinance gelatin with 4 layers of denim and two of light cotton:

12.75" penetration

.652" expansion

[doublehorse 1]

I think Double Tap makes some of the best ammo out there. Primers as good as Federal (always go bang). Very hot loads. And the price is excellent. I also use their .40 S&W 135gr Nosler in my Glock 22 house gun. I do feel barely protected with the .38, but it is my BUG and I at least Double Tap gives me a very hot load for it.

[superA 289]

You guys have provided some fine points to consider. Thank you.

[superA 289]

Ok I thought about it and I have decided to go with the .357 mag. I'll just put in enough time with it to be sure of shot placement. Any that you would recommend? Is a 4 inch barrel to big to conceal carry? Thanks.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Ok I thought about it and I have decided to go with the .357 mag. I'll just put in enough time with it to be sure of shot placement. Any that you would recommend? Is a 4 inch barrel to big to conceal carry? Thanks.

I like older S&W and Colts. Remember a concealed carry weapon is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. I can conceal a Govt. Model 1911 w/5" barrel but my belt has to be tight. Are you considering inside the waist band, outside the waist band, small of the back, shoulder rig, crotch carry or something else. Whatever you choose remember that the carry rig will determine the comfort level. The cheaper the rig the less comfortable. Take a look at Milt Sparks site for good leather.

 

1911

[superA 289]

I'm thinking inside the waist band. Also I was thinking at looking at an ultra light model. Thanks for the tip on the holster. I will certainly shop around and buy quality. Any companies that come to mind that make lightweight .357 mag? I'll tell you, I did hold a Judge lightweight recently and it was real nice. I really like it but I was worried about it being to big to carry.

[bigj480 203]

I'm thinking inside the waist band. Also I was thinking at looking at an ultra light model. Thanks for the tip on the holster. I will certainly shop around and buy quality. Any companies that come to mind that make lightweight .357 mag? I'll tell you, I did hold a Judge lightweight recently and it was real nice. I really like it but I was worried about it being to big to carry.

 

S&W makes some that are VERY light, but I don't know if I would shoot .357 through them. They have "Airweight" models that are light and "AirLite" models that are extremely light(as light as 12oz). I recommend you try a stainless 357 snubby first, then look at the lighter models. I bet you would end up using .38s in a really light revolver. Cant help you with the holster, I generally carry mine with a "clipdraw".

Edited December 20, 2008 by bigj480

[bigj480 203]

Oops.

Edited December 20, 2008 by bigj480

[superA 289]

I have shot the .357 snubby, the recoil doesn't bug me at all and I'm hoping to get as long barrel as I can and still carry. I'll take a look at the S&W, thanks.

[doublehorse 1]

I have shot the .357 snubby, the recoil doesn't bug me at all and I'm hoping to get as long barrel as I can and still carry. I'll take a look at the S&W, thanks.

 

Did you shoot a light .357 snubby? Even if you can handle the recoil, can you do follow up shots quickly. And I doubt if the gun can handle having too many hot .357 magnum being shot through it. I recommend getting a Ruger SP101. It is all steel, built like a tank. I carry mine in a SmartCarry holster. Have some action work done on it to improve the trigger. I had Gemini Customs work on mine.

[superA 289]

I have shot the .357 snubby, the recoil doesn't bug me at all and I'm hoping to get as long barrel as I can and still carry. I'll take a look at the S&W, thanks.

 

Did you shoot a light .357 snubby? Even if you can handle the recoil, can you do follow up shots quickly. And I doubt if the gun can handle having too many hot .357 magnum being shot through it. I recommend getting a Ruger SP101. It is all steel, built like a tank. I carry mine in a SmartCarry holster. Have some action work done on it to improve the trigger. I had Gemini Customs work on mine.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean when you say you doubt the gun can handle having too many hot .357 magnum shot through it? Do you mean the structural integrity of the gun?

[doublehorse 1]

I have shot the .357 snubby, the recoil doesn't bug me at all and I'm hoping to get as long barrel as I can and still carry. I'll take a look at the S&W, thanks.

 

Did you shoot a light .357 snubby? Even if you can handle the recoil, can you do follow up shots quickly. And I doubt if the gun can handle having too many hot .357 magnum being shot through it. I recommend getting a Ruger SP101. It is all steel, built like a tank. I carry mine in a SmartCarry holster. Have some action work done on it to improve the trigger. I had Gemini Customs work on mine.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean when you say you doubt the gun can handle having too many hot .357 magnum shot through it? Do you mean the structural integrity of the gun?

 

Two gunsmiths I talked to said the S&W Airweight and Scandiums cannot stand the long term effects of thousands of rounds of hot .357 magnums. They would break. They had seen it several times. Stainless steel guns like the SP101 can handle tens of thousands of rounds without a problem. That was their opinion. I have seen anecdotal evidence of this reported on a few forums.