16 inch saiga 223 at shop yesterday

[TWGLADF 0]

looked at a 16 inch 223 at the shop yesterday.

 

the barrel seems to be pretty damn thick.

 

and at 16 inches it should be pretty damn stiff.

 

these two factors together should result in a pretty damn accurate weapon.

 

with it being chrome lined, damn i want one now!

 

if it wasn't for the mini 14 gaining in value i'd consider losing it and getting a saiga 223.

 

then again i may get a saiga 223 anyway.

[Doerdie 0]

You know the Saiga ain't gonna jam on ya!

[IndyArms 10,186]

Nothing EVER WRONG with having "BOTH!"

 

[Tokageko 8]

Currently I'm trying to decide on a 223 caliber rifle. It's pretty much up for grabs between the Mini 14 and the Saiga. I would be modifying the hell out of both of them. Any thoughts or oppinions?

[TEXASAK73 13]

Since when did the mini 14 go up in value? I find them all the time for under 300.00 in good shape.

[romak3lover 0]

I have a Saiga 16" in 223 and it shoots 1" groups at 100yrds with match grade reloads. I am having it converted to pistol grip by Firefly Arms. It is a fact that the short barrel Saigas shoot better than the longer barrels.

[Tokageko 8]

romak3lover: I'm curious about this question of barrel length. It seems counterintuitive to me, that the short barreled versions would shoot more accurately than the long barrel versions. Has anyone actually put two guns of the same caliber in a rest and fired them with the same ammunition, at the same range, under the same conditions? ... Or is all of this merely un-confirmed observation?

[TEXASAK73 13]

There was a show on the military channel called Cold war that compared the AK and the M16. This was a little biased in my opinion but still a cool show.

 

They showed a slow motion clip of both rifles firing. You could visibly see the AK barrel flex nearly a 1/4". I can only imagine what a 22" barrel would do.

[Tokageko 8]

I geuss it makes a little sense... being that theoretically, a shorter barrel will not be acting as a force on the bullet for as long as a longer barrel would. However, I'd think that if both guns had the same contour and weight barrel, just at different lengths, and were supported the same, the advatage should go to the longer barrel. This would be primarily because of a higher initial velocity (creating a flatter trajectory) and most likely also a longer sight radius. Either way, I think the difference should be slight, nothing that anyone except a hard-core bench-rester would notice, or care about. It encourages me to hear that the saiga 223 has a 1 in 7 twist. Am I remembering that right? That should mean that you can make better use of the heavy match bullets. Aside from that though, to digress actually, I'm sold. I'll be going to the gun shop tomorrow, money in hand to buy an s-223. I just couldn't resist the call any longer....

[TWGLADF 0]

i didnt mean value as in a monetary value. i feel with another ban coming in the future the mini 14 will be targeted almost as hard as the ak. in some states it is as notorious as the ak.

 

i read that the guy that is taking rumsfields place(can't remember his name) is going to reinstate another awb. heard it on the news. its "alberto" something.

 

is it alberto gonzales? he was bushs lawyer in his first term.

 

ok off the political note.

 

i would get a s223 before a mini 14 if i had to do it over.

 

i will never part with my mini 14. so looks like i will have both.

 

i've never had a jam in my mini but i had some trouble hitting the broad side of a barn. until i installed my "pain in the ass" muzzle brake. that tightened up the groups considerably but you shouldn't have to modify a weapon to do what it's supposed to do after paying the inflated price that they are not really worth.

 

only upper hand that the mini would have is the ability to readily accept all sorts of high cap mags without any modifications.

 

even that 90 round mag that i would not mind having just for the hell of it.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Actually, I think someone posted here the saiga has a 1 in 9 twist.... NOT a 1 in 7...

 

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=3312

 

Check the link out...

 

Edited January 25, 2005 by IndyArms

[TEXASAK73 13]

Ahh ok I see what you mean then. I have my uncles pre 85 mini-14 not a bad plainker with the factory 20's the 90 rounder would be a hoot to have for shits and giggles.

 

I am sending my .223 to krebs to convert into a KTR-03S (yeah baby!) that is one sweet ass rifle I can not wait to get it home and sighted in with my Aimpoint I am going to buy for it. I will post pics in about 4 months that is about the time I will get it back due the lead time and funds.

[Tokageko 8]

IndyArms: Yeah, I just took another look at that before reading this topic again, and noticed the 1 in 9. For some reason I remember seeing 1 in 7 there before. Oh well, no big dea. Just happy to have correct information. Either way, I'll be picking up my 223 16" tomorrow. I have a feeling it's going to be a fun one to shoot. I'm planning on sending it somewhere, possibly to Firefly Arms to have it converted to have a pistol grip. That's not in the immediate future though. One reason I am excited about this is that we have several thousand 223 remington cases, just waiting to be reloaded. It will give me something to do in my spare time: try to find the most accurate load.

 

 

Oh, again on the subject of barrel length... I had another thought. If both the 22" and 16" rifles have the same twist rate (don't know why they wouldn't), then two cartridges from the same lot are are going to be fired at different muzzle velocitites, meaning that one will not adequately stabilize the same bullet that the other will; because of the difference in velocity (30 - 50 fps per inch!). I still have a hard time stomaching the idea that the 22" barrels 'whip' more than the 16"s. I know that with the 308, the barrel is the same contour on both lengths. I've gotten groups just as good as any of those I've heard from those with 16" barrels.

 

On something with a thin barrel, like the romak 3 or the mini-14, it makes a difference. I just find it hard to believe the saiga 223 rifles would have two different barrel contours, depending on length. That just doesn't sound like something the Russians would do.

 

A final thought.... If 16" barrels were so much better, don't you think there would be more of them used in matches? Not ISPC, but NRA highpower. Same thing with benchrest guns, they all have barrels from 22" to 24".

 

Ok, that's enough for now I think. Have a good day everyone.

[TWGLADF 0]

if everybody else is like me, they aren't really saying that the 16 inch barrels are better, i just like the 16 incher for easier mobility in brush and thickets while hunting.

 

but it is a good thing to know that it is as accurate as the longer barrels.

 

(at least mine is)

[Tokageko 8]

hehehe, yeah, I will agree with that, most definately. Shorter barreled weapons are more manueverable. In fact, that's the primary reason I wanted a shorter 223 caliber rifle. My 308 22" is good for shooting prone off a bi-pod, but not so good for off-hand (the scope makes it too heavy). I think I'm going to put a red dot on the 223. The idea (plan) as of now is a gas tube with a 1913 rail on it. I think that would be about the easiest to do. I also want to put a Mojo rear peep sight in place of the normal rear leaf. I'm so excited about this rifle.

[Dch48 0]

I have put 200 rounds through my new Saiga 223. I love it, put a 3X9X40 scope on it with the standard Saiga mount and it works great. With my eyes, I can't see the target past 25 yards with the iron sights, so I need the scope. Now, with the way the scope mounts high above the rifle, I can use it for long range and go back to the iron sights for the short range shots. I love this rifle.

 

One more thing, Has there been any info on a new importer since EAA dropped the ball?