NFA Shipping ?

[Etnomaiab 0]

I'm on the list for an S17 but had a few questions regarding shipment to Tony and back as well as when to register the shotgun as an SBS. I've gone through the NFA stuff for a SBR and suppressor already so I am familiar with the process, but I want to make sure my time line is correct so I don't end up paying an extra $200 transfer tax.

 

Here is what I am thinking. I ship the shotgun as a regular shotgun to Tony from my FFL (since it will be crossing state lines). Tony receives the shotgun, works his magic, and registers it as a SBS (since he has his SOT and it will not cost him $200). Next Tony ships it to my SOT here in town and I fill out all the forms, send them in with my $200, and play the waiting game again. Is this all correct?

[Blam 4]

I'm on the list for an S17 but had a few questions regarding shipment to Tony and back as well as when to register the shotgun as an SBS. I've gone through the NFA stuff for a SBR and suppressor already so I am familiar with the process, but I want to make sure my time line is correct so I don't end up paying an extra $200 transfer tax.

 

Here is what I am thinking. I ship the shotgun as a regular shotgun to Tony from my FFL (since it will be crossing state lines). Tony receives the shotgun, works his magic, and registers it as a SBS (since he has his SOT and it will not cost him $200). Next Tony ships it to my SOT here in town and I fill out all the forms, send them in with my $200, and play the waiting game again. Is this all correct?

 

Since you are waiting on the Tromix waiting list... why not kill two birds with one stone? You have two "waits" to deal with, waiting in the Tromix line, and another wait for the NFA Stamp. Why not do both "waits" at once like I did?

 

I bought the S12, and did the Form I for my SBS. Tony gave me the lengths to put down for the S17 model. I sent the paperwork in to the NFA, and got back my stamp in 2 months.

When my turn at Tromix came in, I sent Tony my Saiga, and a copy of my approved and stamped Form I. UPS let me send the shotgun directly to him, (no FFL needed on my end as I was shipping to a FFL). Tony did his magic and shipped it directly to me. No need for any class III FFL dealer as the transfer paperwork for the purchase and the NFA stamp were both done already.

 

You can do it the way you listed, but you can minimize the overall time by doing both your waiting periods concurrently instead of separately.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Blam

[nalioth 405]

You can send your shotgun to Tony directly. No FFL needed on your end to ship firearms to an FFL holder for repair or other disposition.

[Etnomaiab 0]

I'm on the list for an S17 but had a few questions regarding shipment to Tony and back as well as when to register the shotgun as an SBS. I've gone through the NFA stuff for a SBR and suppressor already so I am familiar with the process, but I want to make sure my time line is correct so I don't end up paying an extra $200 transfer tax.

 

Here is what I am thinking. I ship the shotgun as a regular shotgun to Tony from my FFL (since it will be crossing state lines). Tony receives the shotgun, works his magic, and registers it as a SBS (since he has his SOT and it will not cost him $200). Next Tony ships it to my SOT here in town and I fill out all the forms, send them in with my $200, and play the waiting game again. Is this all correct?

 

Since you are waiting on the Tromix waiting list... why not kill two birds with one stone? You have two "waits" to deal with, waiting in the Tromix line, and another wait for the NFA Stamp. Why not do both "waits" at once like I did?

 

I bought the S12, and did the Form I for my SBS. Tony gave me the lengths to put down for the S17 model. I sent the paperwork in to the NFA, and got back my stamp in 2 months.

When my turn at Tromix came in, I sent Tony my Saiga, and a copy of my approved and stamped Form I. UPS let me send the shotgun directly to him, (no FFL needed on my end as I was shipping to a FFL). Tony did his magic and shipped it directly to me. No need for any class III FFL dealer as the transfer paperwork for the purchase and the NFA stamp were both done already.

 

You can do it the way you listed, but you can minimize the overall time by doing both your waiting periods concurrently instead of separately.

 

 

So if the SBS is in my name I can shit it directly to Tony, and he can ship it directly back to me? I am also in Texas, so it will be crossing state lines. Will I have to do the engraving before hand or can I just let Tony do it? Do I need to get a form 4 approved before or after I ship it to Tony?

[nalioth 405]

Under Federal law, an individual may ship a firearm to a license holder for repair work.

 

Under Federal law, the licensee can ship it directly back to the individual.

 

 

 

 

Etnomaiab is shipping his non-NFA gun to Tromix for conversion, so it'll have to come back via a Class 3 dealer.

 

If you already have your form 1 approved, you can send it directly to Tromix and have it returned directly to you.

 

"Crossing state lines" has nothing to do with any of this, so long as you are sending your firearms to a license holder.

Edited January 9, 2009 by nalioth

[Etnomaiab 0]

Under Federal law, an individual may ship a firearm to a license holder for repair work.

 

Under Federal law, the licensee can ship it directly back to the individual.

 

 

 

 

Etnomaiab is shipping his non-NFA gun to Tromix for conversion, so it'll have to come back via a Class 3 dealer.

 

If you already have your form 1 approved, you can send it directly to Tromix and have it returned directly to you.

 

"Crossing state lines" has nothing to do with any of this, so long as you are sending your firearms to a license holder.

 

So get the form 1 approved, then ship to Tony, and he ships it back when he is done? No form 4's at all?

 

What about the engraving? Since I do the form 1 myself, must I put my trust name and location on the receiver? Or can I just have Tony do all that stuff when he gets it?

 

I apologize if these questions seem dumb. I thought I had it all figured out but it looks like I don't, and I figured I could ask here instead of asking Tony himself and slowing him down. I do appreciate all of the help nalioth and Blam.

 

-Nick

[nalioth 405]

So get the form 1 approved, then ship to Tony, and he ships it back when he is done? No form 4's at all?

 

What about the engraving? Since I do the form 1 myself, must I put my trust name and location on the receiver? Or can I just have Tony do all that stuff when he gets it?

 

I apologize if these questions seem dumb. I thought I had it all figured out but it looks like I don't, and I figured I could ask here instead of asking Tony himself and slowing him down. I do appreciate all of the help nalioth and Blam.

 

-Nick

A form 1 carries a $200 'making tax' for your nfa weapon.

 

A form 4 carries a $200 "transfer tax" for your non-aow nfa weapon.

 

The OP is sending a Title 1 donor shotty to Tromix, where it will be "manufactured" into an NFA (Title II) weapon by Tony. This will have to come back to the OP on a form 4.

 

You are not buying a prebuilt SBS (which would be on a form 4), but you are "making" one via a Form 1. It's $200 out of your pocket, either way.

 

I'm sure someone more familiar with the order of the markings will chime in further.

Edited January 9, 2009 by nalioth

[Etnomaiab 0]

The OP is sending a Title 1 donor shotty to Tromix, where it will be "manufactured" into an NFA (Title II) weapon by Tony. This will have to come back to the OP on a form 4.

 

You are not buying a prebuilt SBS (which would be on a form 4), but you are "making" one via a Form 1. It's $200 out of your pocket, either way.

 

I'm sure someone more familiar with the order of the markings will chime in further.

 

That's what I thought, but Blam mentioned that he did the form 1 stuff beforehand to cut down on the wait. I thought that if I did the form 1 stuff first that I would have to get a form 4 approved to send it anywhere. That's where I think I am getting hung up.

 

So I just ship my unconverted, 19" shotty to Tony and get it back on a form 4? (and is this done through Tony or does it have to go to my local SOT first?) Or is there a way to get stuff done now (form 1) to cut down on the wait time like Blam mentioned?

 

Thanks again for your help.

-Nick

[nalioth 405]

That's what I thought, but Blam mentioned that he did the form 1 stuff beforehand to cut down on the wait. I thought that if I did the form 1 stuff first that I would have to get a form 4 approved to send it anywhere. That's where I think I am getting hung up.

 

So I just ship my unconverted, 19" shotty to Tony and get it back on a form 4? (and is this done through Tony or does it have to go to my local SOT first?) Or is there a way to get stuff done now (form 1) to cut down on the wait time like Blam mentioned?

 

Thanks again for your help.

-Nick

Doing it on an approved form 1 (with the $200 'making' tax) allows you to send it directly to Tromix and have it returned directly to you.

 

Doing it on a form 4 will require the services of a local class 3 dealer (and paying their fees, as well as the $200 transfer tax) after your regular ol' shotty been turned into an SBS. The form 4 wait also starts when the gun hits your local class 3 dealers premises, so you'll be waiting for the approval while it sits at your local class 3 dealers.

[Blam 4]

So if the SBS is in my name I can shit it directly to Tony, and he can ship it directly back to me? I am also in Texas, so it will be crossing state lines.

Yes. I am also in Texas, and shipped a shotgun that I already own to Tromix in Oklahoma. If you already own the shotgun, you can ship directly to another state if you are shipping it to a FFL. The same to receive the shotgun that you already own from Tromix. Go to a UPS hub, the UPS stores may not do it, but the UPS hub locations will.

If you are buying the shotgun from Tromix, it does have to be shipped to a Class III FL to make the purchase, then they hold it while the NFA paperwork is being processed.

 

Will I have to do the engraving before hand or can I just let Tony do it?

Tony will stamp your Name, City and State into the receiver for you

 

Do I need to get a form 4 approved before or after I ship it to Tony?

You do not need a form 4 to send a shotgun to own to Tony, you need a stamped and approved ATF Form I (530.1) Application to Make and Register a Firearm ($200 stamp). You are "making" a SBS, and you are just hiring Tromix to do the work for you.

And yes, Tony will want a copy of your Form I stamped and approved before he will cut on your barrel. If your place in line for Tromix is over 8 or 9 weeks, I would get your Form I done first, and save allot of time over all.

[Etnomaiab 0]

Thanks for the help guys. I get it now.

 

-Nick

[lelandeod 179]

Interesting discussion. Here's my question:

 

Let's say I go ahead and register my donor S-12 with Tony's dimensions and specs on a form 1. It gets approved and wait for the call from Tromix. Tony calls and I mail him the S-12 for the micro conversion. Will Tony mark "tromix" on the receiver? I understand the maker is required to have his/her name, city and state engraved on the receiver somewhere. I just want to make sure that if I jump through all these hoops that I'll have proof it was a Tromix build and not a basement hack job. If not, I'd rather wait the extra few months for the form 4 with "Broken Arrow, OK" stamped on that bad boy.

 

I just want to know if Tony will stamp his mark on the S-17 even if it is already on a form 1 under my name.

Edited January 14, 2009 by lelandeod

[Gunfixr 76]

You can send your unconverted S12 to Tony, along with your approved Form 1, directly from your residence, irregardless of state lines. You get your info, such as barrel length, from Tony, and use the original serial number. He can then engrave it and do the work. He will engrave it with the name of the manufacturer that is listed on the Form 1, as per regulations. This will be you, or your Trust, or whatever. You will have to pay the $200 "making tax" to ATF prior to the Form 1s approval. He can send it back directly to you. ATF would like to have a Form 5 notifying them of this shipping back and forth, but it's not absolutely required.

 

You can send your unconverted S12 to Tony. He can make and register it as an SBS. He will have to pay a $200 "making tax" just like you would have. He's not going to eat this fee, so it will be added to your bill. Since it's now a different firearm, which you didn't previously own, it must be shipped back to an NFA dealer. You will have to fill out and get approved a Form 4, along with paying a $200 transfer fee. Tony will mark it with the Tromix name as the manufacturer. The receiving NFA dealer will probably want a fee for receiving and transferring the firearm.

 

You figure out what you want to do.

 

If I have this wrong, I'm sure someone will say so.

[nalioth 405]

You can send your unconverted S12 to Tony, along with your approved Form 1, directly from your residence, irregardless of state lines. You get your info, such as barrel length, from Tony, and use the original serial number. He can then engrave it and do the work. He will engrave it with the name of the manufacturer that is listed on the Form 1, as per regulations. This will be you, or your Trust, or whatever. You will have to pay the $200 "making tax" to ATF prior to the Form 1s approval. He can send it back directly to you. ATF would like to have a Form 5 notifying them of this shipping back and forth, but it's not absolutely required.

 

You can send your unconverted S12 to Tony. He can make and register it as an SBS. He will have to pay a $200 "making tax" just like you would have. He's not going to eat this fee, so it will be added to your bill. Since it's now a different firearm, which you didn't previously own, it must be shipped back to an NFA dealer. You will have to fill out and get approved a Form 4, along with paying a $200 transfer fee. Tony will mark it with the Tromix name as the manufacturer. The receiving NFA dealer will probably want a fee for receiving and transferring the firearm.

 

You figure out what you want to do.

 

If I have this wrong, I'm sure someone will say so.

An NFA manufacturer pays an annual SOT (Special Occupatiional Tax) in addition to their FFL licensing fee, and can make as many NFA weapons as s/he likes w/o paying a tax for each. The buyer will still pay the $200 tax on the form 4 to transfer any of these to themselves.

 

For an NFA manufacturer to inflict $400 worth of tax on a customer just seems kinda wrong.

[Gunfixr 76]

It did seem kinda wrong, but that was how I understood it when ATF explained it to me.

[mike_f 0]

Interesting discussion. Here's my question:

 

Let's say I go ahead and register my donor S-12 with Tony's dimensions and specs on a form 1. It gets approved and wait for the call from Tromix. Tony calls and I mail him the S-12 for the micro conversion. Will Tony mark "tromix" on the receiver? I understand the maker is required to have his/her name, city and state engraved on the receiver somewhere. I just want to make sure that if I jump through all these hoops that I'll have proof it was a Tromix build and not a basement hack job. If not, I'd rather wait the extra few months for the form 4 with "Broken Arrow, OK" stamped on that bad boy.

 

I just want to know if Tony will stamp his mark on the S-17 even if it is already on a form 1 under my name.

 

 

 

I did the Form 1 while on Tony's waiting list. After my Form 1 was approved, Tony built my SBS, marked it with my name and address as the maker, AND engraved TROMIX on it too.

[jmacken37 4]

quote]

An NFA manufacturer pays an annual SOT (Special Occupatiional Tax) in addition to their FFL licensing fee, and can make as many NFA weapons as s/he likes w/o paying a tax for each. The buyer will still pay the $200 tax on the form 4 to transfer any of these to themselves.

 

For an NFA manufacturer to inflict $400 worth of tax on a customer just seems kinda wrong.

 

This is actually not quite accurate as to the process. You are correct that a manufacturer with an SOT can 'make' SBS's without paying the $200 tax. However, there is always a tax due. They have to pay excise tax AND if their production rises above a certain threshold, they have to pay double the 'reduced' SOT. Then there is the huge paperwork ass pain. Tromix are wise to just have the customer 'make' their own SBS's.

 

Jake

Edited February 9, 2009 by jmacken37