imarangemaster 315 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 well, I love my Saiga, and the Sure Fire mag works great, and even the Promags work great, but... I was watching a one hour Military channel on the Russian Spetznez, which was about 50% about AKs and their variants. I really like the 9x39 Vitorinez. Very Cool! What really impressed me, though, was the former Spetznez guy doing push ups on his AK74, using the bakalite magazine as the single poit of contact with the ground! I have no delusions that the Promag would snap like a twig, and I am unsure the Surefire could even handle it, or come close for that matter! While I don't plan on using my Saiga to do push ups, that and the video I saw of the drop test of various AK mags failing miserably has me wanting sturdier mags. New Galil Orlite mags seem like the best compromise price and value. They seem popular here on the board. I haven't handled one in 20 years, but I seem to remember them being pretty tough. Steel 223 mags like the Weigers and Polymker Arsenal 223s are scarce and EXPENSIVE! Putting in a bullet guide is no big deal, and it looks like the Galil mags need little modification from the threads I have seen. I have read good things in the threads. (See Nalioth, I did my homework this time!) Anyone got any negatives? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Oh, by the way, I am one part short for foreign mags. Anyone have a KVAR US disconector they would like to part with? Edited February 16, 2009 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I priced Asenals and Weigers where I could find them. WOW! Too much! I did find a place where I got two new issue Galil Orlites for $39 (for 2). That's cheaper than Promags! I ordered some Galil's. I may hang on to the Promags a spares, as even if the tab breaks off the front, they will still work since I am getting a bullet guide from Dinzag. You can never have too many mags! I have about 25 AR mags and 25 M1 carbine mags. I am still interested in any observations others have, maybe not covered in the posts. I researched and only came up with one negative repot about stiff springs. Edited February 17, 2009 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I priced Asenals and Weigers where I could find them. WOW! Too much! I did find a place where I got two new issue Galil Orlites for $39 (for 2). That's cheaper than Promags! I ordered some Galil's. I may hang on to the Promags a spares, as even if the tab breaks off the front, they will still work since I am getting a bullet guide from Dinzag. You can never have too many mags! I have about 25 AR mags and 25 M1 carbine mags. I am still interested in any observations others have, maybe not covered in the posts. I researched and only came up with one negative repot about stiff springs. I'm not sure you're understanding which 'tabs' break. It's the locking surfaces that break on the Pro-Mags/Surefires/other, as they don't have any metal reinforcement in them. The raised feed lip will never break unless you smash it with a hammer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 The tab I am referring to is the thin "bullet guide" tab on the front-top of the promag. It is not heavy duty like factory or surefire that are built up from the locking lug to the top of the "bullet guide", but rather a thin, flat piece with little support. It does not look too strong. Some folks have had it break off. It was discussed in a recent post I know the locking lug on the back and lips have no metal like the bakalites do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Well, I don't recommend Pro-Mags to anyone (unless they want a mag for immediate action drills and get it for free) Go with your Orlites, they're good'uns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Thank you sir, I agree. I researched the Sure Fire before I bought it, and am keeping it. The Promags I got initially because they were relatively inexpensive and count as three compliance parts when I just used the Tapco T6 with Saw grip for a partial conversion. I initially had bought the Siaga on a whim, just to get a 223 AK before the ballon went up. After I did the PG conversion and replaced the handguard, the 3 compliance parts became a non issue (well actually I have to add one more part, probably a disconector). Since I have used the weapon, converted it, and found it is more accurate than my AR, I take it much more seriously and want "Serious" magazines for it. Promags were OK for a start and for a plinker, but if I was not already retired (5 military and 20 years LE), I WOULD NOT HESITATE to use it as a trunk gun! I will probably keep the Promags as spares, or I may sell them on GB for around $20 each. That would give someone who doesn't have time or energy to shop around a chance to pick them up cheap. I have 7, and they are all new in the wrap except one that I have been using along with the Sure Fire. Edited February 17, 2009 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62smith 1 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Galil mags are steel lined, you can see the metal lining at the flat portion on the top of the magazine. Also you don't need to modify every magazine, just clearance the front of your mag well about 1mm on each side and they'll snap in like a charm. I had 2 videos of the mods I did to get my Bulgarian mags and Galil mags to work in my rifle, but took them down because there didn't seem to be much interest. The Galil mags are also very thin and hold 35 rounds instead of the typical 30, and have steel reinforcements on the lock lugs, I highly recommend them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I can't wait. I ordered an round trunion 223 Saiga bullet guide kit from Dinzag today. Hopefully I'll get mine as quick as the person who just posted about getting theirs with quick shipping. I know that some folks say the Orlite may work without a guide, but a little redundancy insurance is a good thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I can't wait. I ordered an round trunion 223 Saiga bullet guide kit from Dinzag today. Hopefully I'll get mine as quick as the person who just posted about getting theirs with quick shipping. I know that some folks say the Orlite may work without a guide, but a little redundancy insurance is a good thing. This came up elsewhere earlier today. Due to the vagaries of manufacturing, your Saiga may not need a bullet guide with certain magazines (which are also subject to manufacturing vagaries). For utter reliability, a bullet guide is required. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Wow, got my 7 Orlite Galil mags today from Joe's Pawn shop. Absolutely pristine and brand new. Not a mark on them. The molded in letters and raised numbers are crisp. Not a scratch on the rear metal locking lug. Maybe he has a new batch or got too much flack from folks. I bought on Sunday and called in CC, they said it would go out Tuesday, and I got them today, Friday. Boy, these are substantial mags. I haven't handled one in years, and I forgot how tough they are. Probably could do push ups on them like the Spetznez guy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bshoop13 0 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I love my orlites they are pretty tuff mags. The only problem i have with them is after about 20-25 rounds it starts to hurt the thumb as bit. Not sure if the spring breaks in or not after they get used enough but I guess thats why god gave us 2 thumbs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Wow, got my 7 Orlite Galil mags today from Joe's Pawn shop. Absolutely pristine and brand new. Not a mark on them. The molded in letters and raised numbers are crisp. Not a scratch on the rear metal locking lug. Maybe he has a new batch or got too much flack from folks. I bought on Sunday and called in CC, they said it would go out Tuesday, and I got them today, Friday. Boy, these are substantial mags. I haven't handled one in years, and I forgot how tough they are. Probably could do push ups on them like the Spetznez guy! It's nice getting your mags in that condition! That's how mine came from CDNN a couple of years back! I really like the Galil Orlites (a lot)!! Try to find a reliable 30-rd mag for your M1 Carbine - good luck (one reason I sold my carbine). You wouldn't think it would be a problem, given that we made more M1 Carbines than any other military rifle (go figure). The Galil Orlites are reliable, predictable, affordable, and available, all BIG plusses... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I love my orlites they are pretty tuff mags. The only problem i have with them is after about 20-25 rounds it starts to hurt the thumb as bit. Not sure if the spring breaks in or not after they get used enough but I guess thats why god gave us 2 thumbs. (Love that photo (& caption), Bilo... ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Wow, got my 7 Orlite Galil mags today from Joe's Pawn shop. Absolutely pristine and brand new. Not a mark on them. The molded in letters and raised numbers are crisp. Not a scratch on the rear metal locking lug. Maybe he has a new batch or got too much flack from folks. I bought on Sunday and called in CC, they said it would go out Tuesday, and I got them today, Friday. Boy, these are substantial mags. I haven't handled one in years, and I forgot how tough they are. Probably could do push ups on them like the Spetznez guy! It's nice getting your mags in that condition! That's how mine came from CDNN a couple of years back! I really like the Galil Orlites (a lot)!! Try to find a reliable 30-rd mag for your M1 Carbine - good luck (one reason I sold my carbine). You wouldn't think it would be a problem, given that we made more M1 Carbines than any other military rifle (go figure). The Galil Orlites are reliable, predictable, affordable, and available, all BIG plusses... I have always had an M1 carbine for the last 25 years. I currently have a 90% Underwood GI M1 carbine that was "re"imported back from Israel. I have GI "SEY" and "AI" 30s, as well as about 6 "AYP" which were made by FN for the Dutch government. They are even a tad heavier than GI! All of the above are reliable 30s. Problem many surplus carbines have is the recoil spring on their carbines are worn and compressed. I have worked on a bunch, and most I have seen are about 1/2 to 3/4" shorter than spec. Get a good new GI spring from Ricca or someone like that. But back to the Orlites. Since I got my taxes done today, Momma may give me a kitchen pass to play in the garage and modify the mags. My arm is out of the sling after 6 weeks (4 after shoulder reconstruction surgery) and I have some motion. It will be a month or more, though, before I can even shoot my 223! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AEnemaBay 3 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Wow, got my 7 Orlite Galil mags today from Joe's Pawn shop. Absolutely pristine and brand new. rolleyes.gif Not a mark on them. The molded in letters and raised numbers are crisp. Not a scratch on the rear metal locking lug. Maybe he has a new batch or got too much flack from folks. I bought on Sunday and called in CC, they said it would go out Tuesday, and I got them today, Friday. Boy, these are substantial mags. I haven't handled one in years, and I forgot how tough they are. Probably could do push ups on them like the Spetznez guy! Well damn, I guess I was one of the unlucky ones! I'm glad it all worked out for you. Maybe I'll have to give them another try. Actually I take that back, I went ahead and looked over their feedback again and I'm not alone in what happened to me. So I guess we can file Joe's Pawn Shop under "use at your own risk". Edited February 21, 2009 by AEnemaBay Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Boy, modifying the mags was way easy. At first I used as dremel cut off wheel, but it wasn't as neat as I would like. After the first two, however, I used a sharp utility knife, just removing the upside down "L" at the front. I didn't mess with the bottom rib, as it was below receiver level. Another benefit of the utility knife, besides being neater, is that I was ablt too make them a little snugger, with almost no side wiggle. The mags seat perfectly, though there is about 1/32" or 1/16" up and down play on the locking lug. It does not effect bolt engaging the rear of the round in the magazine, however, as it grabs 1/4" of the rim. IT DOES NOT FEED WITHOUT A BULLET GUIDE, THOUGH! tried it, and that nice heavy bolt carrier group and AK recoil spring promptly crammed the bullet into the case. I guess I will have to wait for my Dinzag bullet guide. I LOVE the Galil Mags. They are TOUGH! I will post pics tomorrow. I had to drill out the front pin hole from the non converted fire control group for the aluminum cross pin used in the conversion guide where you use the original retainer spring. I replace that spring with E clips, so I had to plug those holes. They are too large for the Dinzag plugs, but I found a perfect plastic plug that looks like a rivit head in the Hillman drawers at the hardware store. I'll post a picture of that, also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62smith 1 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 The mod needed to the rifle to make these mags clear for me was very minor, less than a minute with a dremel and I don't have to touch any of the mags I purchase in the future. Is there any reason people don't do a little grinding on the magazine well more often? It just seems that if you're dealing with more than 1 or 2 mags it is so much more economical in the long run plus you don't have to mess with the mags. Oh BTW I got a chance to look at some AR15 Orlites today, WHAT A JOKE! I couldn't believe those were made by the same company, paper thin poly and no reinforcement I could see, it's no wonder the Orlites got a bad name in the AR community. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I actually though about grinding the gun instead, but it only took about 2 minutes per mag, so I defered to not grinding. It only took me 15 minutes for all 7 mags. I knew what I was doing with the mags from others posting. I was afraid of grinding something I shouldn't in the gun. You should post exactly what you did so others can do it right also. Edited February 22, 2009 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Modifying Galil mags isn't anything near the operation of grinding actual Kalashnikov mags to fit is. If you have a bunch of military surplus AK mags, grind your rifle to fit them. If you have a bunch of Galil poly mags, do the Galil mags and leave your rifle alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62smith 1 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 ... I posted up 2 videos of the mods I did and got not 1 reply to them so I took them down, seemed like there was no interest. Also I spent virtually no time on my rifle total to get the bulgy's and the Orlites to snap in and function just fine; I see no reason to not do these mods, I know I saved time over grinding on the mags and if I get any different mags in the future I won't have to touch them. The Orlite mod was so simple it was insane, I honestly didn't spend 2 minutes of time actually grinding. I'll retake the photo's when I get back to my rifle and post them up again to show what I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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