Newbie's notes on a pistol grip conversion

[saiga875 10]

I just completed a PG conversion today and I wanted to share my notes while they're fresh in my mind. First, the video done by newmodedvd was a big help. It isn't done on the S12 but it was pretty much the same. The S12 does NOT have the pistol grip hole so you'll need to cut that out OR get the Tromix DIY trigger guard.

 

http://www.vimeo.com/2787027

 

One thing that was frustrating for me on the demilling was the removal of the rear FCG pins. You have to drill them out as shown in the video but mine kept rotating. I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole. Removing the safety lever was necessary to grab one of the pins properly.

 

To get the reusable pins out (the ones that become the new FCG pins) requires that you move the spring that keeps them in place. Otherwise you end up beating on the pin like an idiot. Pick the pin up or push it down (depending on the pin) to relieve tension on the pin. It helps to have a partner which I did not have. It should be noted that if you remove the rear pins (that are drilled out) you can remove the spring which relieves the tension. I got tired of fighting those pins and wanted more room to work so I went after the front two pins first.

 

When removing the "sporter plate" you just need to grind off the heads of the rivets as shown in the video. I don't see what grinding on the bottom of the rivet does since you're pushing the rivet into the receiver. Be sure to grind the entire head of the rivet off. When the circle stops getting smaller you're there. You will be grinding into the plate. I prepped, taped off and put some black paint over the bare metal exposed by the removal process.

 

I used the Tromix DIY trigger guard so demilling the original trigger guard was not an issue. The Tromix piece is really recommended and the angled guard gives a better look in my opinion. Honestly, I don't think the Tromix guard is being explained properly. I've been looking at this forum for a long time and I was under the impression that the Tromix guard allowed you to add a PG without having to move the FCG forward. I really can't recommend it enough. I wouldn't want to do the conversion without it. I wish resellers would explain and show how the video is put on. This thread was what finally showed me what the Tromix piece accomplished. The addition of the built in safety stop was a real plus too.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry235538

 

The bolt hold open installation was a little tricky but not too bad. I used the video made by Carolina Shooters Supply.

 

 

I'd seen another video that used dental floss but that did not look like it went too well. This video used needle nose pliers and I think bending the short leg of the spring was a good tip. It took some finessing but getting the pin through the spring hole wasn't too bad. The same goes for inserting the hammer pin through the front of the BHO lever. Definitely use the punch technique as shown in the video. One thing I would add is be sure to tension the hammer spring before installation. That isn't necessarily obvious to anyone who hasn't torn apart an AK before. I should know better but I was so involved in the BHO process I forgot to do that. Getting the shepherd's hook spring back out wasn't fun.

 

I used a Tapco SAW grip and a Tapco T6 collapsible stock. I drilled out the top two holes for the stock and used the factory screws. On the bottom third hole I had to use a pan head screw because the original screw was just too big. You'll want to do the bottom hole before you install the pistol grip so you can get the right angle for the drill. When you do the top, front screw make sure to flush it down or the recoil rod assembly won't seat in the tang properly. Because of the way the Tromix DIY trigger guard rear screw sticks up (inside the receiver) you'll need to grind off a good bit of the T6 stock bottom so it clears the screw.

 

I think that was about all I wanted to share. I'll add or edit this post if I think of something else.

[Wotan1105 7]

Nice post man

[nalioth 405]

One thing that was frustrating for me on the demilling was the removal of the rear FCG pins. You have to drill them out as shown in the video but mine kept rotating. I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole. Removing the safety lever was necessary to grab one of the pins properly.

As I keep saying (but nobody seems to listen) you dont need to drill those pins.

 

A cold chisel will roll the edges up and they'll come out easily. This is usually much quicker and less stressful than drilling.

 

The only time I use a drill is on the huge center rivet holding the Klinton plate on (and for the bullet guide).

[saiga875 10]

One thing that was frustrating for me on the demilling was the removal of the rear FCG pins. You have to drill them out as shown in the video but mine kept rotating. I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole. Removing the safety lever was necessary to grab one of the pins properly.

As I keep saying (but nobody seems to listen) you dont need to drill those pins.

 

A cold chisel will roll the edges up and they'll come out easily. This is usually much quicker and less stressful than drilling.

 

The only time I use a drill is on the huge center rivet holding the Klinton plate on (and for the bullet guide).

 

Won't a chisel end up marring the finish on the receiver? Not that I have a cold chisel in the first place.

[nalioth 405]

One thing that was frustrating for me on the demilling was the removal of the rear FCG pins. You have to drill them out as shown in the video but mine kept rotating. I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole. Removing the safety lever was necessary to grab one of the pins properly.

As I keep saying (but nobody seems to listen) you dont need to drill those pins.

 

A cold chisel will roll the edges up and they'll come out easily. This is usually much quicker and less stressful than drilling.

 

The only time I use a drill is on the huge center rivet holding the Klinton plate on (and for the bullet guide).

 

Won't a chisel end up marring the finish on the receiver? Not that I have a cold chisel in the first place.

You're not chiseling the Saiga, you're chiseling the shoulders on the pins. If you're digging into the Saiga, you're doing it wrong.

[Raoul_Duke 113]

I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole.

 

I use needle nose locking pliers, myself. But I use internal receiver blocks, so I put screws (thanks to ripper1 for kindly posting that idea) in all the empty holes, so you're going to end up drilling out the 4 side holes with 3/16" bit anyway . . . I put an 8-32 screw in the bottom hole.

[saiga875 10]

I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole.

 

I use needle nose locking pliers, myself. But I use internal receiver blocks, so I put screws (thanks to ripper1 for kindly posting that idea) in all the empty holes, so you're going to end up drilling out the 4 side holes with 3/16" bit anyway . . . I put an 8-32 screw in the bottom hole.

 

I used some stainless steel hole covers from Home Depot. They're in the hardware section by all of the screws. Look in the big slide out drawers. They're 3/16" in size (labeled that way) and cost $0.85 each. You do have to drill out the receiver holes to 3/16".

[impcmonk 1]

Who sells the bolt hold open. I'm probably going to get the Tromix drop in trigger.

[gkcf 8]

There's already one in it...

[nalioth 405]

Who sells the bolt hold open. I'm probably going to get the Tromix drop in trigger.

Not sure which bolt hold open you're talking about.

 

All new Saigas come with a BHO.

[Raoul_Duke 113]

I had to reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grip the pin so it won't just spin in the hole.

 

I use needle nose locking pliers, myself. But I use internal receiver blocks, so I put screws (thanks to ripper1 for kindly posting that idea) in all the empty holes, so you're going to end up drilling out the 4 side holes with 3/16" bit anyway . . . I put an 8-32 screw in the bottom hole.

 

I used some stainless steel hole covers from Home Depot. They're in the hardware section by all of the screws. Look in the big slide out drawers. They're 3/16" in size (labeled that way) and cost $0.85 each. You do have to drill out the receiver holes to 3/16".

 

Thanks but, I meant I drilled and tapped holes in the receiver block and put in screws in to more securely hold the block. Like this: Post #11

 

I think it's the best way to go if you can't weld.

[saiga875 10]

Here's a picture of my valley girl as she currently looks. I plan to add one of Cobra's gas tube shrouds sometime.

 

Chaos Warthog muzzle brake, Surefire (SGM) railed hand guard, Tapco SAW grip, Tapco T6 stock, Tromix modified Tapco FCG, Tromix DIY trigger guard

Edited March 14, 2009 by saiga875

[gpqueen 545]

Here's a picture of my valley girl as she currently looks. I plan to add one of Cobra's gas tube shrouds sometime.

 

Chaos Warthog muzzle brake, Surefire (SGM) railed hand guard, Tapco SAW grip, Tapco T6 stock, Tromix modified Tapco FCG, Tromix DIY trigger guard

Looks great. Good job with it. Cobra's shroud will look great on yours.

Greg

[crfakm4 0]

I did mine last night and used those same videos. They were a big help. It also helped being familiar with the AK platform as I have 3 of x39's.

 

I aquired the Tromix FCG which saved time from having to shave the hammer for clearance. It just dropped in.

 

It is as easy as yall have been saying and I could do the next one without reference. You guys have been a great rescource. I will post a pic when it I am done with some other accessories.

Edited March 14, 2009 by crfakm4

[saiga875 10]

I did mine last night and used those same videos. They were a big help. It also helped being familiar with the AK platform as I have 3 of x39's.

 

I aquired the Tromix FCG which saved time from having to shave the hammer for clearance. It just dropped in.

 

It is as easy as yall have been saying and I could do the next one without reference. You guys have been a great rescource. I will post a pic when it I am done with some other accessories.

 

I agree. Once you do it you won't need any help on second one. If you can afford a second one. I think I'm up to around nine bills with just bolt ons and drop ins.

[Mortal Sword 0]

Would it be possible for you to set your video's tag to allow downloads? This is pretty useful information, and I wouldn't mind having a local copy.

[saiga875 10]

Would it be possible for you to set your video's tag to allow downloads? This is pretty useful information, and I wouldn't mind having a local copy.

 

Those aren't my videos. They're just ones I used when doing my own conversion.

[Mortal Sword 0]

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if you were the uploader or not. Looks like I'll have to settle for saving the .flv.

 

Thanks for replying, though.

[saiga875 10]

Updated pic with Cobra's gas tube shroud.

[vintagedude88 16]

I had no problem drilling out the heads of the rear pins. My conversion kit came from Dinzag which included carbide drill bits. That and the drill set at a higher speed would have probably avoided your problem. Dinzag does mention on his site that the high speed drill bits are not very effective, hence the carbide.

 

Regarding the axis pins, I'm not sure what you meant by having any difficulty. The retaining spring on mine was looped around the forward rear trigger pin. Once removed, the stock retaining spring came out. With that out of the way, the axis pins pushed out easily.

 

I had to not only grind the rivet head off the trigger plate but I also had to drill the rivets as well. Especially the big one in the middle. Thinking back, definitely YES, the Tromix DIY trigge guard makes the conversion easy because you don't have to cut a PG hole and it comes with a safety stop. I had to cut the PG hole and I cut off the safety stop from the trigger plate and reused it with the new trigger guard.

 

The biggest problem I had aside from tackling the BHO spring problem was putting the bolt carrier back in. I found out that my hammer didn't push all the way down into the receiver because the forward trigger guard screw pushed against it. This was one of those problems that was solved by giving it a rest one night and coming back to look at it again.

[saiga875 10]

Updated with more tacticool. Added a Tapco Intrafuse vertical grip and a Gunfixer gas plug. Also took the photo with an AGP mag in it. Against my own judgment regarding my mental health (don't really want to know) here is about what it would cost to do each step.

 

Tip to tail:

 

Chaos Warthog brake and barrel nut - $88

SureFire (SGM) railed handguard - $65

Tapco Intrafuse vertical grip - $20

Gunfixer's gas plug (MD Arms) - $38

Cobra's gas tube shroud - $20

AGP ten round mag - $50

Tromix modified Tapco FCG - $50

Tromix DIY trigger guard - $50

Tapco SAW pistol grip - $20

Tapco Intrafuse T6 collapsible stock - $30

 

TOTAL - $431

 

Plus about $570 for the shotgun = $1,001

 

I knew I didn't want to know.

Edited May 5, 2009 by saiga875

[pfmedic 8]

so Im going to need to either drill my own hole for my pistol grip or buy the tromix DIY trigger guard? This is a new development

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

so Im going to need to either drill my own hole for my pistol grip or buy the tromix DIY trigger guard? This is a new development

 

More like cut your own hole in the receiver for the pg nut.. it kind of sucks that all Saigas except the shotguns now seem to have the pg hole already cut at the factory.. but oh well.

 

I was already planning to do this for the more "traditional" triggerguard I want to use, (the one from akbuilder), and also to correctly use the Ace internal receiver block I bought, (meant to be secured with internal pg nut).. but I have to admit that I'm a little nervous about it.. haven't ever done "gun surgery" this extensive before.

 

Does anyone have the exact dimensions of the pg hole and it's location mapped out? A detailed diagram specifically for the S-12 perhaps?

[scoutjoe 276]

Does anyone have the exact dimensions of the pg hole and it's location mapped out? A detailed diagram specifically for the S-12 perhaps?

 

 

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

^ Perfect! Thanks, scoutjoe!

[pfmedic 8]

Im bumping this because I just finished my conversion and wanted to say/identify a few things as a noob who did the deed.

 

1. Drilling the holes is a pain in the butt, but again, if you have the right tools i.e., a good drill, dinzags carbide drills and a good tabletop vice grip, its not that bad.

2. Skip the dremel and go to the grinder to get the plate off... if you have a steady hand, this is the way to go. If you dont, use the dremel and put on a pot of coffee.

3. Pry the trigger guard plate off by bending back the trigger guard and using it a handle for leverage.. wiggle it every which way and it will give. Skip the screwdriver, its scarey.

4. Drill the middle of the rivets you grinded/dremeled off a little at a time, give it a couple of punches, if it does not go, drill it a little more. You dont want to mess those holes up.

5. The BBQ grill spray-paint I heard about isn't a match but it looks like its going to hold up well. It dries fast and I found some other uses for it after the conversion was done.

6. The video from carolina shooter supply is the best thing to do the remainder of the project IMHO. Follow exactly what he says and you will make less mistakes.

7. In order to get the BHO spring in place I recommend a pair of small hemostats. You can buy them at a medical supply store of Harbor freight tools... an indispensable tool.

8. Even if you grind down the safety like the video states, you may still need to grind off the area of the BHO that comes in contact with the area where you insert the safety lever.

9. Dont be afraid to start over. I dont care how hard you thought it was to get the BHO spring under the pin. Sometimes you have to remove everything and try again!

10. There is no substitute for the proper tool. Cut your losses and go to the store to buy what you need. Punches, hemostats drill bits etc.

11. When you are done there are no words for how proud you will be, how knowledgeable and how much this adventure will make it your favorite gun you own.

 

Thanks guys.

 

-Paul

Edited May 20, 2009 by pfmedic