Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have a Saiga 12. I'd like to end up with a nice professional-quality conversion. Pistol grip, trigger moved, holes sealed, folding stock for transport and storage, and refinish. That's about all I need. I contacted a well-known conversion outfit, and it will be four or five months before I can get the work done. I assume they have a wait list, so I can send it in shortly before they need it, but I don't know. I have an inquiry in their email box right now. I don't want to be stuck with a Clintonized abortion for four months. Is it possible to fix one of these things up on your own, making it usable, without screwing it up to the point where a pro job done later will be compromised? I don't mind doing the conversion, but I don't want to mess the gun up permanently. I've seen a video of a guy converting a rifle. He gouged the receiver pretty good, and it generally wasn't a quality operation. I don't want to mangle a nice firearm any more than I have to. I assume the guys at Tromix and CGW and so on don't hack and scrape the guns up and count on the new parts to hide the mess. Are there any major differences between the pros and the amateurs, other than the TIG welding on the back plate and receiver holes? I've read a bunch of threads, but it's hard to tell. I am possibly the world's worst MIG welder. I have a nice Lincoln in my garage, but there is no way I would consider welding on a firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 First off, welcome. Second, doing a basic conversion is EASY. As long as you have basic knowledge and basic skills working with tools, it's a breeze. And when they get it, the Pros can go from there. But if you're not sure, don't hack it up, they HATE THAT! If only I could weld (worth a damn) and had the equipment to bake on a finish . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You're not gonna do anything the 'professional' isn't with your "temporary conversion'. 1) you can install your own side folding stock 2) you can take it to any welder in your area and have them tig up the holes. You can take it home and smooth out the welds yourself. 3) After you get all that done, you can send it out to any finishing place with an FFL for the coating of your choice (they're not backed up, you see) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Mark 2,452 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 If only I could weld (worth a damn) and had the equipment to bake on a finish . . . I have been thinking the same thing since doing my conversion last weekend. I know there is a thread on here somewhere about building a baking oven Also been meaning to tell you. You're signature quotes two of my favorite people Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 1) you can install your own side folding stock I live in Miami, where there is virtually no such thing as skilled labor. We have a huge population of hard-working immigrants, and their wonderful "can do" attitude has resulted in a strong economy, but it has also left us with a lot of tradesmen who have very limited skills, because they basically jumped off the boat and started businesses in order to feed their families and stay off welfare. Miami construction is sloppy. Electricians are barely competent. Etcetera. I would be terrified to let anyone down here do substantial work on a gun I owned. For that reason, I don't think it will be practical to try to get a back plate welded onto a Saiga here. I'm sure I can find ten people who will eagerly claim they can do it, but people will say what they have to in order to get work. I could tell you stories. That being said, if I go with a no-weld solution for a folding stock, is there any reason why I can't use the same stock later with a welded back plate? I was thinking of an ACE Socom M4 folding stock. I don't know much about Saiga stocks, but people seem to like this one a lot. I suppose there might be some decent gunsmiths up in the Fort Lauderdale/Palm Beach area. People in Miami are used to driving up there for some types of skilled labor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) 1) you can install your own side folding stock I live in Miami, where there is virtually no such thing as skilled labor. We have a huge population of hard-working immigrants, and their wonderful "can do" attitude has resulted in a strong economy, but it has also left us with a lot of tradesmen who have very limited skills, because they basically jumped off the boat and started businesses in order to feed their families and stay off welfare. Miami construction is sloppy. Electricians are barely competent. Etcetera. I would be terrified to let anyone down here do substantial work on a gun I owned. For that reason, I don't think it will be practical to try to get a back plate welded onto a Saiga here. I'm sure I can find ten people who will eagerly claim they can do it, but people will say what they have to in order to get work. I could tell you stories. That being said, if I go with a no-weld solution for a folding stock, is there any reason why I can't use the same stock later with a welded back plate? I was thinking of an ACE Socom M4 folding stock. I don't know much about Saiga stocks, but people seem to like this one a lot. I suppose there might be some decent gunsmiths up in the Fort Lauderdale/Palm Beach area. People in Miami are used to driving up there for some types of skilled labor. Since you didn't mention you wanted a weld-on backplate, I assumed you could install an Ace internal adapter. Edited March 12, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Since you didn't mention you wanted a weld-on backplate, I assumed you could install an Ace internal adapter. I want it done right eventually, but for now, I just want it to work. If I can get an adaptor for now and then have the gun welded at a later date, using the same stock, that would be perfectly acceptable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Since you didn't mention you wanted a weld-on backplate, I assumed you could install an Ace internal adapter. I want it done right eventually, but for now, I just want it to work. If I can get an adaptor for now and then have the gun welded at a later date, using the same stock, that would be perfectly acceptable. Your idea will work, but I'm personally not seeing what is wrong with the Ace internal adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Your idea will work, but I'm personally not seeing what is wrong with the Ace internal adapter. You know more about it than I do. After reading a post from the Tromix guys, I was under the impression that you get a nicer end product if you use a welded back plate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Your idea will work, but I'm personally not seeing what is wrong with the Ace internal adapter. You know more about it than I do. After reading a post from the Tromix guys, I was under the impression that you get a nicer end product if you use a welded back plate. Well, if I were Tromix (who makes and sells the back plate), I'd say the same exact thing. A Dodge dealer isn't gonna tell you how nice the Chevys or Fords are. Thousands of folks use the Ace stuff w/o any complaints. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kilo 0 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I would try the "New" internal stock adapter from Magnolia State Armory...looks like it's just a drop in..I have one on order to swap out the Ace block I had to Cut down to fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Well, if I were Tromix (who makes and sells the back plate), I'd say the same exact thing. There's nothing wrong with the internal block, and I've recommended it to lots of guys. I do maintain however that the welded receiver looks better, that is, in my opinion. LOL @ inferring that we drum up business for the weld-on plate; we offer that item as a convenience for builders, and it's a very low-volume item. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Well, if I were Tromix (who makes and sells the back plate), I'd say the same exact thing. A Dodge dealer isn't gonna tell you how nice the Chevys or Fords are. Thousands of folks use the Ace stuff w/o any complaints. This is exactly the kind of information I needed. I would never figure this stuff out on my own. Thanks. And thanks to the next poster for the Magnolia suggestion. I can't get a Tromix trigger guard right now, so I guess I'll get Saigatech in steel. I can blue steel so it will match the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Oh, God. I have to stand in line at the post office to get a MONEY ORDER to get a Saigatech trigger guard. In half an hour, this guy could get together with his host company and set up a proper site with a shopping cart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kilo 0 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Oh, God. I have to stand in line at the post office to get a MONEY ORDER to get a Saigatech trigger guard. In half an hour, this guy could get together with his host company and set up a proper site with a shopping cart. I have the Saiga tech "s12 steel saw" which I just put black spray on it ..came out nice..I think my next will be the "aluminum saw" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Anyone know if the Magnolia trigger guard is the same as the Tromix? I'd much rather buy online than spend an hour of my life getting a money order for Saigatech, followed by four days in the US Mail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Steve, MSA is one of our dealers and they do sell our DIY triggerguard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Steve, MSA is one of our dealers and they do sell our DIY triggerguard. Thank you. Wish you guys had a shorter backlog. You should send Obama a fruit basket or something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 lol thanks, but the backlog has been long for years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Also been meaning to tell you. You're signature quotes two of my favorite people Thanks. I'd never advocate Hunter for anyone else, but he's always worked for me . . . And I'm actually in the middle of a biography on Ben right now . . . LOL @ inferring that we drum up business for . . . Isn't that what Jeaux does . ? . ? But seriously folks, back on topic, I personally think the TROMIX plate looks better, if done RIGHT. But like I said, I can't weld worth a shit, so I have internal blocks on all the conversions I've done myself. So, Steve, what did you decide on, other than the DIY trigger guard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) So, Steve, what did you decide on, other than the DIY trigger guard? Tromix stock with Limbsaver, 2 8-round Surefire magazines, Tromix FCG (because I read the others need work to fit a Saiga), Magnolia adaptor, SAW pistol grip. May have ordered a folding thingamajig. I forget. Edited March 13, 2009 by Steve H. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I think you're set! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Like Bob has said, there's nothing wrong with the internal block. I've used both. I do personally prefer the weld on back plate, but it's primarily aesthetics. I will say that the weld on back plate, when done right by recutting the end of the receiver to angle the stock down slightly, looks even better than the internal block, which sends the stock straight away from the receiver. Depending on your sight setup, and your individual physique, it may work better also. The new Magnolia internal block appears to have this angle. Also, I understand it will require no fitting. It's worth a serious look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nalioth....you are WAY off base. I don't make shit on those back plates. I sell them to help others out. It costs me more to spend the time of processing the fucking order, than it is worth to sell them. That was a fucked up post there, my friend. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 My apologies to Tromix for any offense. I made a bad assumption based on general business practices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 If I could do (or hire) the kind of TIG welding I need, I would have gotten a back plate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
305diver 2 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Check you pms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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