Range Report

[saigafan12345 21]

took the saiga .223 out to the range today. unconverted gun, just has an ACE external block stock and a tapco galil grip installed. I was happy to find out that the red lock-tite worked great and the stock did not loosen one bit. sturdy as hell. However, after about 30 rounds the gun would fire the round, load the next, but the hammer would not cock and i'd have to pull the charging handle (thus throwing a live round out) to load another and cock the hammer. the guy at the gun shop said it needs to be cleaned and lubed better (mine was prety dry, very little oil) do you guys think that is the case or could there be other problems?

[dftc 0]

I really doubt it's an issue with lubrication, especially since it sounds like you haven't had this rifle for very long. You'll hear lots of stories about guys who rarely lubricate their AKs and never have problems.

 

1) Have you tried other ammo?

 

2) Is the hammer not getting caught by the disconnector hook?

With the rifle unloaded, take the top cover off so you can see what's going on, then hold the trigger down and pull the charging handle back. The hammer should get caught by the disconnector hook (the little hook behind the trigger hook). Release the trigger and the hammer should get caught by the trigger hook.

Edited March 14, 2009 by dftc

[WardenWolf 6]

What weight bullets are you using? The Saiga .223 has the same springs as the 7.62. If you were shooting very light (sub-50 grain) ammo it might not have enough force to recock it reliably. Also, you may have gotten bad ammo. If you were shooting Remington UMC, that stuff is known to come from rejected lots. Some of the rounds may have been dead loads.

[saigafan12345 21]

i was shooting lake city m855 ammo.

 

i was thinking the same thing, i hear people saying they never cleaned the thing at all and no probs with it.

 

dfftc i just tried what you said. i take the cover off, hold the trigger down and pull the charging handle back and release it. the hammer gets caught by the disconnector hook. once the bolt is returned forward i let go of the trigger, and then attempt to pull it and dry fire the gun, the disconnector does not release the hammer at that point. i have to pull the charging handle back again and release, after the bolt returns forward again the trigger will release the hammer.

 

is that how it should work?

[elvis christ 451]

I had the same thing happen with my shotgun. I ended up filing the top part of the hammer just a bit, where it was getting caught on the disconnector.

[GreenEye 1]

no once you let go of the trigger the hammer should come off the disconector and be caught by the trigger.

[dftc 0]

That's kind of weird. The disconnector should release the hammer as soon as you let go of the trigger. The hammer then moves slightly and gets caught by the trigger hook. You should not have to pull the charging handle back a second time to get the hammer to release.

The situation you are describing is almost the opposite of what I was originally imagining. I was thinking the disconnector wasn't catching the hammer at all. I'm not sure what would cause the situation you are experiencing. Do you see any burrs, chips, or obviously deformed parts in there that might be causing things to bind up? I don't have any stock Saiga fire-control parts anymore, so I'm not sure how different they are from regular AK parts. I'm pretty sure they are basically the same though.

 

When you release the trigger and the disconnector fails to release the hammer, does the trigger reset properly or does it stay stuck to the rear?

[zone1935 5]

The "legs" of the hammer spring are what forces the trigger foward and should cause the disconector to release. I would check those first.

[saigafan12345 21]

i looked it over again, trying dfftc's "experiment" and i see that when i replicate what he instructed me to do, when the disconnector grabs the hammer, it "reaches" just a little too far over it and when the trigger is pulled, it does not release the hammer. what would cause this?

 

also, when i do the experiment, the trigger is loose after the bolt goes forward, not stiff like usual. it almost just kinda dangles there until i do a full bolt pull back. if i press the trigger slowly all the way back it will set the disconnector into the right place, and then after that will fire as normal. wtf?

Edited March 15, 2009 by saigafun12345

[GreenEye 1]

The disconector is not or at least should not be what releases the hammer to strike the firing pin. The disconector releases the hammer (when the trigger is released by the shooter) to be caught by the trigger hook/hooks, and then the trigger is pulled again for the next shot. Are we sure we are labeling the FCG parts corectly?

Edited March 15, 2009 by GreenEye

[saigafan12345 21]

The disconector does not (should not) be what releases the hammer to strike the firing pin. Are we sure we are labeling the FCG parts corectly?

 

theres some hooked black metal piece off to the side that does not properly let the hammer go. the trigger stays loose for some reason.

Edited March 15, 2009 by saigafun12345

[dftc 0]

The disconector is not or at least should not be what releases the hammer to strike the firing pin. The disconector releases the hammer (when the trigger is released by the shooter) to be caught by the trigger hook/hooks, and then the trigger is pulled again for the next shot. Are we sure we are labeling the FCG parts corectly?

I'm pretty sure we're all talking about the correct parts. His issue seems to be that the disconnector catches the hammer when he fires a round and still has the trigger depressed (as it is designed to do), but it does not release the hammer when he lets go of the trigger. Because the disconnector isn't releasing the hammer it isn't being caught by the trigger hook and thus can not be released to strike the firing pin when he pulls the trigger.

 

He can get the disconnector to release the hammer by pulling the charging handle back a second time. I presume what is happening at this point is that the bolt carrier is pushing down on the hammer slightly as it passes over, releasing some pressure against the disconnector (or whatever the hammer is hanging on) and allowing it to disengage the hammer, thus allowing the trigger hook to catch it and make the rifle ready to fire.

 

theres some hooked black metal piece off to the side that does not properly let the hammer go. the trigger stays loose for some reason.

Do you have a picture of this piece that's off to the side? That doesn't sound like the disconnector, as it should be pretty much in the center of the FCG.

Edited March 15, 2009 by dftc

[saigafan12345 21]

The disconector is not or at least should not be what releases the hammer to strike the firing pin. The disconector releases the hammer (when the trigger is released by the shooter) to be caught by the trigger hook/hooks, and then the trigger is pulled again for the next shot. Are we sure we are labeling the FCG parts corectly?

I'm pretty sure we're all talking about the correct parts. His issue seems to be that the disconnector catches the hammer when he fires a round and still has the trigger depressed (as it is designed to do), but it does not release the hammer when he lets go of the trigger. Because the disconnector isn't releasing the hammer it isn't being caught by the trigger hook and thus can not be released to strike the firing pin when he pulls the trigger.

 

He can get the disconnector to release the hammer by pulling the charging handle back a second time. I presume what is happening at this point is that the bolt carrier is pushing down on the hammer slightly as it passes over, releasing some pressure against the disconnector (or whatever the hammer is hanging on) and allowing it to disengage the hammer, thus allowing the trigger hook to catch it and make the rifle ready to fire.

 

theres some hooked black metal piece off to the side that does not properly let the hammer go. the trigger stays loose for some reason.

Do you have a picture of this piece that's off to the side? That doesn't sound like the disconnector, as it should be pretty much in the center of the FCG.

 

 

yeah it's the trigger hook

[saigafan12345 21]

The disconector is not or at least should not be what releases the hammer to strike the firing pin. The disconector releases the hammer (when the trigger is released by the shooter) to be caught by the trigger hook/hooks, and then the trigger is pulled again for the next shot. Are we sure we are labeling the FCG parts corectly?

I'm pretty sure we're all talking about the correct parts. His issue seems to be that the disconnector catches the hammer when he fires a round and still has the trigger depressed (as it is designed to do), but it does not release the hammer when he lets go of the trigger. Because the disconnector isn't releasing the hammer it isn't being caught by the trigger hook and thus can not be released to strike the firing pin when he pulls the trigger.

 

He can get the disconnector to release the hammer by pulling the charging handle back a second time. I presume what is happening at this point is that the bolt carrier is pushing down on the hammer slightly as it passes over, releasing some pressure against the disconnector (or whatever the hammer is hanging on) and allowing it to disengage the hammer, thus allowing the trigger hook to catch it and make the rifle ready to fire.

 

theres some hooked black metal piece off to the side that does not properly let the hammer go. the trigger stays loose for some reason.

Do you have a picture of this piece that's off to the side? That doesn't sound like the disconnector, as it should be pretty much in the center of the FCG.

 

 

yeah it's the trigger hook

 

should i just take this thing to a gunsmith? or could the fix for it be easy?

[GreenEye 1]

If you could do dftc's test with the top cover off and take a picture of the FCG after letting the carrier go forward and releasing the trigger (taking finger off it), then I am sure we would all be able to help you see what is the issue and possibly save you some $$.

[saigafan12345 21]

Ok, I'm going to get a picture going on here tonight for you guys.

 

i took it to an area gunsmith today and the guy was a total dickbag. I showed him the rifle and explained what I thought the problem might be, he pulled t he charging handle and dry fired the gun and said "looks fine to me" then walked away for a while. i got his attention again and at which point he said "yeah, that aftermarket stock is probably the problem" and walked away. what a douche, didn't even want to look at and fix the gun, doesn't even want my business. comes as no surprise that the only area gunshop is badly abusing their monopoly.

 

anyway, I'll have pictures up tonight, thanks for the help so far guys.

[Flash! 1]

Ok, I'm going to get a picture going on here tonight for you guys.

 

i took it to an area gunsmith today and the guy was a total dickbag. I showed him the rifle and explained what I thought the problem might be, he pulled t he charging handle and dry fired the gun and said "looks fine to me" then walked away for a while. i got his attention again and at which point he said "yeah, that aftermarket stock is probably the problem" and walked away. what a douche, didn't even want to look at and fix the gun, doesn't even want my business. comes as no surprise that the only area gunshop is badly abusing their monopoly.

 

anyway, I'll have pictures up tonight, thanks for the help so far guys.

 

my 223 just started doing the same exact thing..... I took the cover off and watched it while pulling it back manually... no problems..... but when actually firing the gun, the trigger does not reset..... I'm very interested in what you find...... my next step is to try a different ammo because my latest trip to the range was with golden bear ammo that I had never shot in this gun before. I had always used my reloads before but got tired of the "ak kiss" denting my brass.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Flash!

[Flash! 1]

btt

[saigafan12345 21]

Interestingly enough, when I went to take pictures of this problem, it stopped ocurring. I will be taking it to the range tomorrow or saturday to see if it does it again.

[Flash! 1]

well.... a little polishing on some trigger parts cured this problem.....

[imarangemaster 315]

Make sure that BOTH of the hammer spring legs are on the sear/disconnector assembly. One at the shop had one leg off and was causing it to do the same thing. Not enough spring pressure to re-set the disconector.