New to the Saiga-12

[Mint_2k 0]

Hello everyone.

 

I decided to go with a saiga-12 after owning several AK variants over the past 10 years. I've had several SAR-1, a Norinco, and a YUGOSLAVIAN M70, all in 7.62x39.

 

Let me first say I've never owned a shotgun before - only rifles and pistols.

 

I've spent quite a bit of time reading through the posts on this forum in an attempt to make up for the lack of materials I received with my siaga-12. I picked it up at a gun show, and there were two of them on the table - both with no box or papers, but presumably brand new. It certainly looked that way, with no wear (or lube for that matter).

 

The things that throw me off are the gas tube settings. I've never seen an AK variant with an adjustment like this, and I don't want to jack the gun up by not setting it appropriately. There is a "1" and a "2" and I've unscrewed it to see the sliding piston inside. The setting determined by the number that is closest to the pop-out pin, right?

 

Also, I've read a lot of posts refering to "vodka speacials" and the # of gas ports. What is the eaiest way to tell how many gas ports you have?

 

Lastly, I'm pretty sure I've thuroughly embarraced myself, but I'm not wanting to permenantly modify the gun. I've had plenty of years experience dealing with 922r compliancy back in the "Banned" days, and I'd Like to be able to completely take the gun back to stock if needed. I've been looking around on your links to member sites, and orderd a telescoping stock / pistol grip set, new tri-railed forearm and a foregrip, and a tromix shark break. I'm dieing to see how it looks. I already have a 10 rnd promag.

All this and I"ve never even fired the dam thing yet.

 

From what I'm hearing, these rifles shoot the 2.75 & 3 inch shells nicely, but to stear clear of magnum loads. I'f I understand everthing I've read, I need to set the gas settings to #1, and run some 7-1/2 rem through it. Do the settings need to be exactly 1 or 2, or are there inbetween stages?

 

Sorry for all the ?s. I appreciate th help though. You're got a well respected community here.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Also, I've read a lot of posts refering to "vodka speacials" and the # of gas ports. What is the eaiest way to tell how many gas ports you have?

 

Welcome.

 

Start off by reading this. It will explain the gas settings:

http://www.tromix.com/saiga-servicetips.htm

 

Next up. If you remove that gas adjuster cam by just completely unscrewing it you will see the ports that connect the barrel to the gas tube. You should see 3, or even 4 if it's from last year or before. If you see 2 you will probably have cycling issues but it's suggested to try it out before calling cadiz.

 

922R means you cannot snap that high capacity mag into your gun until you replace at least one restricted part with a U.S. part. If you have a 3 port gun a Kings Armory gas piston should be purchased and will put you in the clear.

 

I can see your reasoning behind not wanting to permanently modify it, but the returned to AK configuration has a much better trigger. Even the cheapest Tapco AK trigger is better than the factory build a mouse trap setup.

 

Magnum rounds come in 2-3/4", 3". I've never heard of a problem with Magnum rounds and I've put a few 3" mag 1 buck through my gun without issue. Well other than the recoil jumping up and smacking me in the cheek.

 

Enjoy. This could very well be the most fun gun you'll ever own!

[Danimal3805 0]

Congrats on the Saiga!! You will LOVE IT!!!! Try my "break-in" procedure, it works MINT!! Screw the knob all the way in, then back out to 2. Put about 100 low brass wallyworld (or whatever) 2 3/4" target loads or birdshot through it. Then try it on setting 1. If if works 100% your Siaga is fully broken in. If after about 200 shells it STILL won't cycle on 2 OR 1 then you've got somethin goin on. Check your gas ports first, make sure they're clear. I put the Tapco T-6 on mine and I have a Chaos piston and muzzle brake for further 922r compliance. I also have 3 13 rounders (they say they hold 12) 1 10 rounder (that holds 11) and 2 OE 5 rounders. They are FUN!!!!!

[Mint_2k 0]

Excellent info. I'll open her up and check the # of ports. Looks like I'll be looking for some compliance parts pretty soon. I havn't added the new stuff to the gun yet - nothing is supposed to arrived until Monday.

 

Thanks agian for the info!

 

I just want to make absolutely sure I'm set. The previous rifles (AK-47 variants) I've owned were purchased in 922r compliancy. I remember adding a romanian side folding stock, and replacing the forgrips with US made Iron woods to compensate.

 

The Saiga 12 in stock form is quite different right? If what I'm reading is correct, it's an all import "sporter" config rifle. So doing anything like adding a pistol grip and telescoping stock will throw me out of 922r compliance.

 

Does the threaded barrel nut count for anything - the one it came with?

 

Ok, so I've ordered 4 parts for my rifle:

 

1) a new forearm:

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/index.p...products_id=170

1 USA part manufactured by Pro Mag (USA)

2) Tromix Shark break:

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/index.p...products_id=121

another USA part

3) T6 interfuse stock w/ pistol grip:

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/index.p...products_id=339

counts as 2 USA parts

4) Picatinny fore grip

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/index.p...products_id=411

1 foreign part - not USA made (Command Arms)

5) ProMag 10 rnd magazine

Already purchased

counts as 3 USA parts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Total adding: 7 USA parts & 1 foreign part.

 

So if there are 14 to start off with, and I'm not allowed more than 10, then 4 parts need to be swapped out, right? Shouldn't this set up be ok? I mean at this point forward after the above items are added, if I stick with adding USA made parts, I can add just about anything else I want (or have I missed something?). Please let me know if I've dorked this up. The parts are in the mail, and I have not changed anything yet. I won't unless I get it right all at once.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Mint_2k

[Paladin 37]

Welcome to the party. You'll find there are lots of new dodads and mods for the S12, you can dress it up a little, or alot.

 

Either way, you now have the worlds premier combat shotgun.

 

There's lots of sticky's you can read for info.

[Mint_2k 0]

see above Edited April 17, 2009 by Mint_2k

[yakdung 2,926]

Welcome! You are very smart as indicated by your gun purchase. Just shoot the crap out of it and

enjoy.

 

Yakdung

[DOXtheOX 1]

Read this about your tapco stock and pistol grip.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35348

[hobbyshooter 59]

Yeah your parts count is off.

 

The mag counts as 3 parts (body, floor plate, follower)

The stock counts as one because it' replaces one.

The Forearm counts as one.

The Vertical grip doesn't count because it's not a restricted part

I've seen some say the brake doesn't remove an imported part according to the ATF. So you are adding a restricted part but not reducing your imported parts count (which is what is important).

 

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

Edited April 17, 2009 by hobbyshooter

[vbrtrmn 167]

Never count what you're adding to the firearm! If you remove the buttstock and add a new one with a pistol grip, you don't subtract 2 parts.

 

Take the base weapon, continue to remove Russian parts, until you have 10 or fewer left. Now you can add whatever US made parts you want.

 

In your case:

 

Start with the base 15 parts:

Receiver, Barrel, Muzzle Cap, Mounting Block, Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Gas Piston (puck), Trigger, Hammer, Disconnector, Butt Stock, Handguard, Mag Body, Mag Floor Plate, Mag Follower

 

If you want the basic bolt-on "conversion", you can dump these and wind up with 9 parts: Muzzle Cap, Butt Stock, Hand Guard, Mag Body, Mag Floor Plate, Mag Follower.

I quoted conversion, because most people here don't really consider this a conversion. Also, remember if you do this and use your factory mag, you will be in violation.

 

A full conversion will leave you with 5 parts, here you can use any magazine: Receiver, Barrel, Mounting Block, Bolt, Bolt Carrier

 

The full conversion includes moving the trigger group forward, making the firearm into what it should be. This will improve ergonomics and gives the trigger direct access to the hammer, essentially giving the firearm a better feel as you fire it.

 

Doing the full conversion isn't really hard, if you are comfortable using basic hand tools and a power drill, you can do it! It will also increase the value of your weapon, if you were to ever decide to sell it.

[Mint_2k 0]

Never count what you're adding to the firearm! If you remove the buttstock and add a new one with a pistol grip, you don't subtract 2 parts.

 

Take the base weapon, continue to remove Russian parts, until you have 10 or fewer left. Now you can add whatever US made parts you want.

 

In your case:

 

Start with the base 15 parts:

Receiver, Barrel, Muzzle Cap, Mounting Block, Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Gas Piston (puck), Trigger, Hammer, Disconnector, Butt Stock, Handguard, Mag Body, Mag Floor Plate, Mag Follower

 

If you want the basic bolt-on "conversion", you can dump these and wind up with 9 parts: Muzzle Cap, Butt Stock, Hand Guard, Mag Body, Mag Floor Plate, Mag Follower.

I quoted conversion, because most people here don't really consider this a conversion. Also, remember if you do this and use your factory mag, you will be in violation.

 

A full conversion will leave you with 5 parts, here you can use any magazine: Receiver, Barrel, Mounting Block, Bolt, Bolt Carrier

 

The full conversion includes moving the trigger group forward, making the firearm into what it should be. This will improve ergonomics and gives the trigger direct access to the hammer, essentially giving the firearm a better feel as you fire it.

 

Doing the full conversion isn't really hard, if you are comfortable using basic hand tools and a power drill, you can do it! It will also increase the value of your weapon, if you were to ever decide to sell it.

 

 

Ok, I think I have it.

 

I removed the Muzzle Cap, Butt Stock, Hand Guard, Mag Body, Mag Floor Plate, Mag Follower.

I added the USA made tapco collapsable stock with pistol grip, USA made forearm, Tromix muzzle break (another USA part), and a promag magazine (containing another 3 USA made parts). The forearm vertical grip I attached to the rail of the USA made forearm doesn't count.

 

It looks like its compliant, right?

 

At this point, you're saying all I have that are non-American parts are:

Receiver, Barrel, Mounting Block, Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Gas Piston (puck), Trigger, Hammer, Disconnector.

 

I know I'm -> <- but I want to be sure I'm ok in this config.

 

If this is good, then I only need to make sure I stick to american mande magazines since the stock mag would throw my parts count off.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Mint_2k

[Bounce12 407]

When I first came here I had never heard of 922. It was too complicated to quickly understand and it seemed anal to me.

 

I thought, "Who gives a shit? Nobody is going to inspect the damn thing and if they did they wouldn't know what the hell they were looking at anyway. That shit is WAY too anal for me to bother with."

 

However, as time went on and I did my conversions, it occurred to me (duh) that if I ever have to USE IT in defense and if I actually killed someone with it, the DA will most certainly look closely at it and they will have experts that know exactly what they're looking at (and what's legal and what's not).

 

After that, I started paying close attention to the letter of the law.

 

It's not worth cheating on, that's for sure.

 

Something as simple as a parts count could take you from HERO to criminal. I can just see what the media would do with it on the evening news:

 

Mr. homeowner used AN ILLEGAL FIREARM when murdering the poor home intruder.

 

And all that because you swapped out a few parts and had the FACTORY MAG in it. LOL

[Mint_2k 0]

Does anyone think there is a problem with my future configuration mentioned above?

Edited April 19, 2009 by Mint_2k

[dannyfantasy2000 68]

Does anyone think there is a problem with my future configuration mentioned above?

 

Sounds like you're good to me.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Does anyone think there is a problem with my future configuration mentioned above?

Sorry wandered off...

You have 9 Russian parts remaining:

1. Receiver

2. Barrel

3. Mounting Block

4. Bolt

5. Bolt Carrier

6. Gas Piston

7. Trigger

8. Hammer

9. Disconnector

 

Just be sure you do not use your original magazine or you will be out of compliance. For my help, you should just give it to me or better yet, become a contributor and sell it in For Sale/Trade.