swiftvision 0 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 (edited) I have a 3 month old Saiga 12Clone. It is the nicest conversion I have seen. Has 18.5" barrel including the welded on custom made flash suppressor with sharp strike bezel. Fully converted to 922 Standards with USA made SAW grip, FCG, etc. Has Romanian side folder with US made Bulgarian Grenade launcher pad. The conversion is fully welded, no cuts, no rivets or pins, even in the trigger area. Everything is 100% professionally done, above and beyond. Shotgun was refinished afterwards to a beautiful black power coated finish. Comes with BSA red dot scope on a Russian CENTERED scope rail (most always are off 1/2-1"). Solid mounted rail (attached to the actual shotgun, zero movement) under black handguards with vertical grip. Comes with one 5 round mag. Gas system has been broken in so even with the short barrel it shoots medium and high loads 100% reliable which is very rare without having to cut down the gas tube. $800 or trade for 2 NICE AK's or 3 Romanian's....or send me ideas. !!! Edited February 16, 2005 by swiftvision Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Is that a real 12C with different parts? Do you have all the original goodies? Interested. Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 (edited) I have the origanal internal russian parts, as well as the stock. Edited February 15, 2005 by swiftvision Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Sounds good. Is it a real imported LEO 12C? Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 No, this is a custom made shotgun. Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 (edited) Swiftvision, Your quote regarding Saiga shotgun drum magazines: "Sorry guys, but I am against this 100%....freedom to do things shouldn't be restricted by what-if's. If everyone in America has this attitude....we a surely doomed to inslavement." Your sales ad for the 12C says "buy it before they are banned". Is that based on your stated position there should be no self imposed restraint on manufacturing or using drums for the 12C shotgun? Surely we can all be wise enough to wait for the flow of Saiga 12's to be restored through the new importer before we fan the flame of drum magazines. It would be sad for everyone including the many current owners of Saiga shotguns waiting for magazines for this to become an issue before BATF likely resulting in a ban of the shotguns and magazines before they hit the US shore again. Wolverine Edited February 15, 2005 by Wolverine Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 No, this is a custom made shotgun. you're misrepresenting the Saiga. There IS a difference between a true 12C and one modified to look like it. If i were the buyer and found out it was misrepresented when i received it, i would be a little torqued off. maybe you should ammend the advertisment. Also, you can cut the "buy it before it's banned" drama with us. It may work on gunbroker or at your local gunshow, but we're a little more wise. Respectfully, caspian Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 I think I made it pretty clear that it is a customized shotgun. And whether or not they get banned, it's not going to happen because of a drum and shouldn't stop people from doing things within the legal limit of the law. Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Whatever dude. It's a 12C clone. There IS a difference. A true 12C has collectors value for which people will pay a premium. Yours is a Saiga 12 with a pistol grip, few things dangling off and a $45 sidefolder. Call a spade a spade. No fair taking advantage of nubies who hear about the elusive 12C and plop down hard earned cash only to get a clone. You're misrepresenting it, plain and simple. You make my decision never to buy from you easy. Thanks for unveiling yourself in this ad. Caspian Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 caspian: I can see someone else here knows NRA and blue book rating systems. this is the same thing as saying "i have a new in box gun for sale" that has been shot and put back into its packaging. it is no longer new in box, which removes a premium on its value to collectors, and it is no longer a 100% firearm either, also affecting its premium. I dont think a lot of people understand this, and this causes a lot of problems in the collecting circles that shouldnt be an issue. swiftvision: caspian is 100% correct, just so you know. the value on this gun is about 5-600 tops. if it were a 12C, it would bring the 800 you are looking for. It is a nice conversion though... Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 0 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Whatever dude. It's a 12C clone. There IS a difference. A true 12C has collectors value for which people will pay a premium. Yours is a Saiga 12 with a pistol grip, few things dangling off and a $45 sidefolder. Call a spade a spade. No fair taking advantage of nubies who hear about the elusive 12C and plop down hard earned cash only to get a clone. You're misrepresenting it, plain and simple. You make my decision never to buy from you easy. Thanks for unveiling yourself in this ad. Caspian I concur 100% with Caspian Look swiftvision, you are selling a Saiga 12, not a Saiga 12C. Your shotgun has been converted from a sporting stock to a pistol grip. It has a Romanian rifle folding stock, with a Bulgarian Grenade launcher pad (to lessen the recoil on a stock made for a 7.62 rifle), not the Russian folding stock found on the 12C. You have chopped the barrel to 18.5", whereas the barrel of a 12C is 22". As described, your conversion sounds very nice; however, it doesn't make the shotgun a 12C. The price you put on it is your prerogative. Just stop trying to pass it off as a 12C. It is not. Nor will it command the price of a 12C. There is a 12C on Sturmgewehr.com for $1400. Overpriced, yes! Your "BUY IT BEFORE IT'S BANNED!!!" comment is ridiculous, and you should retract it. Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 ehh....I don't even know how to respond to all your comments....shocking really. You have ruined my for sale add for my 1 of a kind Saiga, for who knows what reasons. Talk about getting your panties in a bunch over nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 swiftvision: caspian is 100% correct, just so you know. the value on this gun is about 5-600 tops. if it were a 12C, it would bring the 800 you are looking for. It is a nice conversion though... Uhh, NO! Guess people who pay over $400 for AK47's are crazy too huh? There is a difference, find me another one like this thats for sale. Hell, build on for less then. I have over $800 into this. This is not just another converted Saiga. Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 This is not just another converted Saiga. Nor is it a 12C. Hopefully anyone reading this thread has been enlightened and is now knowledgable on what they would be buying from you (thanks to us, not the seller). caspian Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 (edited) There is a difference, find me another one like this thats for sale. Hell, build on for less then. I have over $800 into this. This is not just another converted Saiga. How much did that brake cost you??? Gun 350 FCG 40 Stock 50 Front grip 25 FAL grip 20 Mount 25 Red dot 35 ------------ $545 Edited February 16, 2005 by KySoldier Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 (edited) The mount was $55 and the Brake was $65 and the labor is $250. And Caspian....what, are you getting your rocks off thinking you cracked a crime about to happen? I advertised it what it was and never tried to cover anything up. What you see is what you get, it's a very high quality conversion for some one who wants the best. Edited February 16, 2005 by swiftvision Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 It looks like a mceldoo muzzlebreak.... $70 bucks... And... if he used a front grip from ACE... they are $35 bucks... BUT STILL NO WHERE NEAR 800..... Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 The mount was $55 and the Brake was $65 and the labor is $250. labor $250?!?!?!? holy crap. please disregard my previous posts. it is now evident that you are uhh..how do i say this....."challenged". just because you overpaid for the conversion doesn't make it worth more. it just makes you a sucker. BTW, there are more differences b/t your gun and a 12C than there is b/t a stock Saiga and a 12C. You actually put a lot of effort in making it different than a 12C. Good luck. caspian Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Yea, thats pretty normal for conversion prices. Eliete and others charge what, $175-$200, they don't do a high quality refinish, they don't cut the barrel short and weld on flash, they don't weld the holes in the reciever, they don't weld the triger assembly and they don't remove the ghetto cut piece which everyone else has in front of the trigger guard. You can't compair regular conversions which are worth $550 to this one. Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 can you elaborate on the "welded trigger guard". I didn't know that there was a problem with trigger guards falling off which are riveted or bolted. Amazing that there are something like 30 MILLION AK-47's with riveted trigger guards in the world. I wonder how they've become so popular even with their inherently problematic trigger guards. caspian Link to post Share on other sites
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